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Getting more, out of less...

I LOVE primo...it's about the only aas I will still toss in. Finding real primo is tough though....often EQ, test prop or NPP is "accidentally" substituted or "mislabeled" :banghead:
Would love to know how the blood work looks! Interesting... How long will you run 350/w primo? That's a great spot to be 50/d!

TB helps us 40+ with the built up years of inflammation for sure...you will like that and probably continue it quite a while.

And lower dose longer duration is the way to go with the safer compounds when you start to really consider health and the trade off. Hope this helps out a few that are starting to think the same way... why continue to put up with the side effects for those of us no longer competing (or never have even)? Tren...indigestion, anxiety, anger. Limp dick from deca. Joint pain from winny. High RBC and headaches from anadrol. Severe cramps from clen. Etc... just not worth it to ME anymore. "The juice ISN'T worth the squeeze"

The benefits now need to be WAY more than the side effects for me to even consider it. Leaves a SHORT list of options. Primo, var maybe. Test. GH/ghrp.
I got the Primo through a guaranteed sponsor....although that doesn't mean the compound has been tested yet. I should be in cycle about 4-5 weeks when I get my bloodwork from work.....and then I have a physical from my primary doctor a few weeks after that.

The info I get from these will determine how long I run it for....but I have enough for 20+ weeks at that dose if I actually wanted to go that long. I've never ran anything for that length of time....just TRT and something like test p and npp for 8 weeks added in.

Also I will add.....I get complete labs from my primary doctor every 3-4 months. And my job provides bloodwork twice a year due to the nature of the chemicals we have in our facility.

I like to try and schedule at least 1 from work and 1 from my doctor around the same time. Reasoning is that they use different labs....and I want to see comparisons.

My Dr has told me that lab equipment is not necessarily the "end all" when testing as there can be errors as well.

But most methods are proven between calibration and quality control.....although he has said that they have been alerted before by drastic differences in lab values between different places.

But this typically will raise "flags" that something is amiss.

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I got the Primo through a guaranteed sponsor....although that doesn't mean the compound has been tested yet. I should be in cycle about 4-5 weeks when I get my bloodwork from work.....and then I have a physical from my primary doctor a few weeks after that.

The info I get from these will determine how long I run it for....but I have enough for 20+ weeks at that dose if I actually wanted to go that long. I've never ran anything for that length of time....just TRT and something like test p and npp for 8 weeks added in.

Also I will add.....I get complete labs from my primary doctor every 3-4 months. And my job provides bloodwork twice a year due to the nature of the chemicals we have in our facility.

I like to try and schedule at least 1 from work and 1 from my doctor around the same time. Reasoning is that they use different labs....and I want to see comparisons.

My Dr has told me that lab equipment is not necessarily the "end all" when testing as there can be errors as well.

But most methods are proven between calibration and quality control.....although he has said that they have been alerted before by drastic differences in lab values between different places.

But this typically will raise "flags" that something is amiss.

Very wise! And yes different labs use different reference ranges, different testing equipment, etc so comparing the two is awesome. The hard part also is...a blood test is of course a "snapshot" of that particular moment in time...and within days (even hours) things can be quite different.

BUT if we were to hold to a certain protocol long term and have a couple of blood draws in that time be about the same THEN we could be a bit more comfortable in that we are on the right track for our particular physiology. Another reason for drilling down to minimal aas and staying pretty straight line as far as intake...seeking the minimum effective dose and staying the course with real products.

Not sure how many here have seen the new RoidTest products but they have HOME testing to verify compounds. Pretty neat...will try out the primo soon that I've been told tested as npp on another site. :(

I've never taken npp before and really don't like deca side effects so cautious to try it...and in the spirit of this whole minimalist write up really shouldn't lol. I'm hoping the ONE bottle tested was actually mislabeled and mine are legit of course...
 
Diet Carb cycling, low calorie, low fat, fasting…what’s the thing that makes the MOST sense biologically? Completely in awe of my answer to that now. Never thought I’d do this but…Intermittent fasting makes the MOST sense. The body was DESIGNED to use fat during what? PERIODS OF FASTING. So, best way to keep fat off or get leaner? Intermittent fasting. Fed days keeps the metabolism cranking instead of day after day being below maintenance calories to lose fat. Without typing out the entire protocol I’d take a look at “The Metabolic Blowtorch” by Campbell. Works extremely well. Plus this diet saves money AND on fasting days it’s surprising how much you get accomplished AND how much more intelligent you become.

In a nutshell, on training days eat around maintenance calories or just above. On non weight training days fast till the afternoon or evening then consume MOSTLY protein with low carbs and fat. Fasting means NO CALORIES. Even advise to go as far as no artificial sweeteners meaning all day you get only water and black coffee. But think about calorie intake on a WEEKLY need vs intake basis not daily. Still for the most part eating the same foods…eggs, grass fed beef, wild salmon, oats, WHITE rice, veggies, PB, mixed nuts, etc.


Supplements: A few changes here but generally still a quality multivitamin, 3-5g fish oil a day, a quality blended protein, and a few times a year liver/organ cleanse.

Fasting cuts out a LOT of food from the week and for a period I also was not on a multivitamin. Blood work showed low TSH, T3 and T4. Doc wrote a script for Synthroid which I tossed in the trash….and got some high absorbency selenium, tyrosine and iodine and took significantly higher than RDA amounts. Within weeks metabolism and energy made a 100% come back and thyroid levels are fine!

BCAAs and a little carb powder during a workout only … eating lots of whole protein during the day there isn’t a need for drinking BCAAs all day as I used to even dieting.

In place of joint support…curcumin! Great for nearly every cell of the body.

If your doc for some reason won’t prescribe metformin (AMAZING drug) then berberine should be used to help maintain insulin sensitivity amongst a TON of other health benefits.

Also there is a lot of validity to “backfilling the pathways” with DHEA (25mg twice a day should be plenty).

Pre workouts? Nah…half a Cialis and several cups of coffee gets the energy and the pump/vascularity going. Not to mention the positive side effects of Cialis (lower bp, BPH, etc and of course wood at ANY time).

Small doses of pregnenalone are great also and has an excellent antianxiety effect. 50mg is plenty and there are a few out there that make inexpensive time release tabs OTC.

Melatonin also slows down aging effects and improves sleep quality…3-15mg per night….most will need to experiment to see what they like best. Personally I take 5-10mg either quick release or split of quick and time release tabs.

Check your blood work but MOST will need vit D supps to get to top end of normal…get the oil caps not the dry tabs for best absorption and likely 5,000iu daily will get the job done.

Magnesium also before bed…great for nearly every cell and our diets don’t have that much in them anymore.

I love your write-up bro....great info that you learned and tinkered with in your quest. I would argue EAA>BCAA but they are hard to flavor. What forms of Curcumin have you tried and which have you chosen to be your staple that provides the most joint relief? I am experimenting with Meriva...but probably going to go back to BCM-95 unless I can find a good Longvida product.

Do you use regular metformin or the extended release? I have tinkered with DHEA because my levels at one point were a bit low...but I didn't find it to be something I wanted to keep..but I am intending to add in some pregnenolone.

If I don't start using metformin, I am going to use Berberine....one or the other is likely the smart way to do things...especially with excessive calorie and carb consumption.

I do wonder if 10-12.5mg cialis practically daily is excessive. Thoughts?
 
I love your write-up bro....great info that you learned and tinkered with in your quest. I would argue EAA>BCAA but they are hard to flavor. What forms of Curcumin have you tried and which have you chosen to be your staple that provides the most joint relief? I am experimenting with Meriva...but probably going to go back to BCM-95 unless I can find a good Longvida product.

Thanks! And best bet intra workout would be some EAA + BCAA truthfully with a little carbs...
I've used C3, BCM-95 and Meriva and seems to me that Meriva has been the better option but then again I also use TB500 so hard to REALLY say.


Do you use regular metformin or the extended release? I have tinkered with DHEA because my levels at one point were a bit low...but I didn't find it to be something I wanted to keep..but I am intending to add in some pregnenolone.

The best seems to be the regular at 500mg 2-3x a day even fasted.
I do only 25mg DHEA twice a day just to backfill the pathways some...since on HCG don't need a whole lot or will raise estro. Pregnenalone I use "as needed" 50mg for anxiety before bed with 5-15mg melatonin and 200mg magnesium. (I take 200mg mag glycinate mid day also). Seems to work really well.


If I don't start using metformin, I am going to use Berberine....one or the other is likely the smart way to do things...especially with excessive calorie and carb consumption.

Berberine seems to be equally as successful for the most part just costs 3x more...not sure ALL the health benefits mirror metformin though either no real research has been that in depth.

I do wonder if 10-12.5mg cialis practically daily is excessive. Thoughts?

Well all the info I found suggested 5-7mg daily for the health benefits it was initially created for (BPH, blood pressure, etc)...so working that to weekly is 35-49mg...so doing a half tab before 4-5 workouts totals out to 40-50mg...about the same.

:)
 
GH/pepties… so much to say here. EVERYONE doing test/hormone replacement and 30+ should look into either gh or ghrp/ghrh (or both). Tremendous benefits. Reduce aging symptoms (my favorite way to say that lol, currently nothing is “anti-aging” as time WILL go on), maintain lean mass, sleep better, “burn” fat, recover faster, better mood, etc. And at reasonable doses the side effects have been limited to water retention and CTS, and minor at that. MK-677/ibutamoren is a great substitute for those not wanting to add a couple additional pins a day OR could be worked into the rotation. GH for a few months, peptides for a few months, Ibut for a few months. Ibut does seem to bloat the MOST and first ~week many are extremely hungry…may be best used in winter months. Seemingly on of the best protocols: GH at 2iu in the morning as SOON as you wake up, Ipamorelin/modGRF at 200/100 before bed. Best bang for the buck again, for those seeking longevity, minimal sides, etc. Plenty enough to keep lean and feel great. More would result in side effects, lethargy, and lighten the wallet additionally without much added positive benefit.

Another peptide hormone…HCG. It’s NOT just to keep testicular size and fertility. Tons of health benefits from usage of this LH mimicking hormone. BUT to keep estrogen low the OLD recommendation of 500-750 a couple times a week isn’t a good idea. Instead best use would be for example, on days you don’t take a test shot take 150-200iu HCG. That’s it. So in the personal MWF test shot example, TuThSatSun I take a small HCG dose. Much less likely to spike estro this way also but keep an eye on it if this is added in to a stable protocol.

TB500…huge fan. 5mg (a bottle) a week for a few weeks then cut that in half for a few weeks…then a bottle should last ~3 weeks each for indefinite use. Inflammation derived aches and pains are 75% reduced.

BPC has some uses for increasing the rate of injury healing but limited experience. My aforementioned partial bicep tear I used higher dose gh (4-5iu) and seemed to bounce back quickly (weeks not months) but the partial pec tear a bottle of BPC and I was back 75% in about 20 DAYS! Certainly something to it.

What are your thoughts on frag 176 for fat loss only?
 
What are your thoughts on frag 176 for fat loss only?

If you're taking something anyway may as well be ghrp/ghrh combo and get the other benefits of gh spike as opposed to JUST fat loss...

Now using it IN ADDITION to ghrp/ghrh combo will increase the rate fat loss of course...just bang for the buck personally not too impressed.
 
After reading this thread I've dropped to 300 mgs test per week and Mk- and have to say I'm loving it.
I may add a low dose something in April, but maybe not!
 

ive been taking ten mgs daily of Cialis for over year now and am loving it. Bp is down a couple points, pumps in the gym are great...and the bedroom benefit is nice
 
After reading this thread I've dropped to 300 mgs test per week and Mk- and have to say I'm loving it.
I may add a low dose something in April, but maybe not!

Comes a time to step down to the basics...once you've built to the level you want to be at, to continually pound the body with different aas to look 2-3% better...ehhh no thanks. Good for you though! Your blood work will thank you! I'm ITCHING to get some primo though...I had said I wanted to run long term 250mg TRT and gh replacement (2iu max 3) ONLY and see what I can do with intermittent fasting and simpler training...but really a BIG primo fan when it's legit primo! Currently seeking...

ive been taking ten mgs daily of Cialis for over year now and am loving it. Bp is down a couple points, pumps in the gym are great...and the bedroom benefit is nice

I'm only 3 mos into that and very pleased...so still working for you apparently? That's my only real concern, desensitization.


**broken link removed**

Clearly this hasn't happened YET but from what I understand there is at least a USA generic coming soon, if it hasn't already. I can't see a reason for it not to be OTC with all the health benefits and etc...
 
Comes a time to step down to the basics...once you've built to the level you want to be at, to continually pound the body with different aas to look 2-3% better...ehhh no thanks. Good for you though! Your blood work will thank you! I'm ITCHING to get some primo though...I had said I wanted to run long term 250mg TRT and gh replacement (2iu max 3) ONLY and see what I can do with intermittent fasting and simpler training...but really a BIG primo fan when it's legit primo! Currently seeking...



I'm only 3 mos into that and very pleased...so still working for you apparently? That's my only real concern, desensitization.


**broken link removed**

Clearly this hasn't happened YET but from what I understand there is at least a USA generic coming soon, if it hasn't already. I can't see a reason for it not to be OTC with all the health benefits and etc...

I have noticed no desensitization whatsoever
 
Great post! Thank you for the info. I've been testing with my hrt dosages to see how I feel going lower.

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Did the drop from 275ish mg to 80mg x 3 for 240mg total weekly and seemed a bit lower than I like...blood panel showed me right at 1000ng/dL so bumped back up a tiny bit to 90mg x 3 which puts me around 1250 ng/dL and apparently that's my sweet spot... unfortunately I still need an AI with that plus low dose HCG (200iu 4x a week) also but currently seeing how 1/2mg twice one week and three times the next does. At 1mg total weekly estro was up just a little into the 40s and I'm best upper 20s to 35 in years past. Then again my doc doesn't offer sensitive estro testing only general E2 so not sure how accurate that even is...
 
Along the same lines as this post...getting more from less... Emeric Delczeg's low dose daily protocol info here:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/142864-10-mg.html

Considering trying this to totally eliminate AI use...20/day (140mg total) showing for some in this thread to have the same total and free I have on 90mg 3x a week (270mg)! Half the dose and the same results without estrogen issues? Sold...

Most seem to report great libido also...which is the other concern with dropping dose lower...besides loss of lean muscle. Swapping my script to enanthate which has earlier onset than cyp even though it's half life is only about one day less (one less carbon) the pharmacokinetics apparently are different (again from Emeric's research).
 
Found a couple more threads relevant to the topic here... lower daily dosing showing very promising results...the free test being HIGHER than most (myself included) achieve on 3x per week injection schedules!


http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/hrt-forum/141563-daily-dosing-plus-dim=damntastic.html

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...cle-forum/139996-everyday-im-trt-results.html

When I'm on TRT...it's 12mg ed. Plus I do use 200mg of DIM daily....but I have used that since turning 40.
 
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i also do this, but i have found after time one day off a week helps keep it that way.:lightbulb:

yeah I skip days I don't train MOST of the time and seem to always forget to take it Sunday's so I skip once a week if not twice and 10mg (half a tab) every day otherwise... BIG FAN! lol

Also recently read a few things about it potentially lowering estrogen a few points and with my recent crusade to get off AIs that's a big plus.
 
i also do this, but i have found after time one day off a week helps keep it that way.:lightbulb:
Wish I could....buy every single one I've tried gives me horrendous sides....flushing, nasal congestion, even acid reflux which I never have.

And I've tried doses so miniscule .....it's ridiculous. So its citruline for me at the moment. Usually about 8 grams in my intraworkout shake....and I get really good results.

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This thread is packed with TONS of extremely effective info! Its really very refreshing to see.
 

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