Getting more, out of less...

[Matsuo Munefusa]

@hemipower are you still running the primo year around? Anything you've noticed from doing that for years?

I have been loving primo the last couple years. I run anywhere from 150-700mg a week....I've only gotten up to 700mg a couple times, and to be honest I find I feel better around 350mg/week compared to the higher doses.

The only drawback to primo I've noticed is that my estrogen is very low from my TRT dose of test (70-125mg/week, depending on what I'm doing). I can't even get my estrogen up to normal levels with the primo in circulation too. 100% certain my test is good (biotech). I'm debating adding some low dose trestolone to try to get estrogen up to normal levels...

 

[hemipower]

@hemipower are you still running the primo year around? Anything you've noticed from doing that for years?

I have been loving primo the last couple years. I run anywhere from 150-700mg a week....I've only gotten up to 700mg a couple times, and to be honest I find I feel better around 350mg/week compared to the higher doses.

The only drawback to primo I've noticed is that my estrogen is very low from my TRT dose of test (70-125mg/week, depending on what I'm doing). I can't even get my estrogen up to normal levels with the primo in circulation too. 100% certain my test is good (biotech). I'm debating adding some low dose trestolone to try to get estrogen up to normal levels...

Nah it's a little cost prohibitive and I only know of ONE real primo (UA)... I feel about the same though...hover somewhere around 300-500 as best dose personally. I've done 800-1000 before and I could kinda tell a difference but not enough to warrant continuing to do that for sure. At this time I intend to run primo about 4-6 mos a year at 300ish.

Instead of mixing other things in, personally I'd just bump test up a tad to get more estro.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

That's what I think I decided to do....it was either between test, trest, or dbol to get estrogen up and test is the only one that will give me real estrogen thats not methylated, so it wins.

Yeah, I hear you on the cost, even raws are expensive......if we ever had the apocalypse occur, I'd want/hope to be sitting on a kilo of primo....that would be fucking sick lollllll

 

[hemipower]

I recently made the switch and nothing but prop at 35mg every night and ipam/tesamorelin also before bed... really like it! Simple, effective and minimal. Curious to see blood work though...libido initially was WAY up (maybe from dropping off the EQ from 30/day to zero,maybe from the change to prop) but currently libido is down significantly... so thinking potentially ONLY short test isn't as good as the prop/enan blend I've done for years. Ideally a blend that is 100mg prop/100mg enanth would be best I'm guessing...

Still doing the 10mg cialis 3x a week as pre workout and the metformin and thyroid blend.

I just skimmed back thorough this entire thread and interesting to see elimination of certain things (AIs) and slow reduction of doses even... wish I had started down this path a few years earlier than I did!

Anyone just starting this can start with 2018 (around post 92 on page 5) before that I was still working through things lol...

 

[cmryan]

I recently made the switch and nothing but prop at 35mg every night and ipam/tesamorelin also before bed... really like it! Simple, effective and minimal. Curious to see blood work though...libido initially was WAY up (maybe from dropping off the EQ from 30/day to zero,maybe from the change to prop) but currently libido is down significantly... so thinking potentially ONLY short test isn't as good as the prop/enan blend I've done for years. Ideally a blend that is 100mg prop/100mg enanth would be best I'm guessing...

Still doing the 10mg cialis 3x a week as pre workout and the metformin and thyroid blend.

I just skimmed back thorough this entire thread and interesting to see elimination of certain things (AIs) and slow reduction of doses even... wish I had started down this path a few years earlier than I did!

Anyone just starting this can start with 2018 (around post 92 on page 5) before that I was still working through things lol...

Just curious but why before bed? So it's in full swing by the time morning comes? Or just easiest time to do it?

 

[hemipower]

Just curious but why before bed? So it's in full swing by the time morning comes? Or just easiest time to do it?

I assume you mean test... yes and yes.

 

[cmryan]

I assume you mean test... yes and yes.

Yeah sorry lol. I meant the test prop pins. Thanks.

 

[Landmonster]

Lot's of claims of amazing physiques on these 1500 calorie diets, but as usual I see no pictures.

These guys are all 180lbs and think they are massive.

I'm not sure these protocols work if you want to be 270+

 

[hemipower]

These guys are all 180lbs and think they are massive.

I'm not sure these protocols work if you want to be 270+

Nope, not at all brother. None of this is intended for someone chasing mass... I've admitted it, hell I was in the 250s on WAY MORE calories and meds... and now holding 220s on all the above (and I KNOW I am not massive lol)... this discussion is about getting the most out of LESS... a combination of the pursuit of muscle and health in ONE...

 

[hemipower]

Digging this back up!

Still on the same path... recently ran 25-30mg test (prop/enanth blend is perfect) with 30-50mg primo enanth daily (6 pins a week with one day "break") for about 4 months and slowly gained strength and felt great. Did a final 5 weeks with added anavar at just 10mg 2-3x a day and leaned up notably without much change to diet at all... about half the dosage of years prior and similar results... I did find I got indigestion quite a bit and cut the var to 10mg twice daily... still doing cialis at 10mg every other day so that combo may just be not ideal for me... but this is the first oral I have taken in a few years. GH still low as well at 2iu in the morn and training days occasionally another 2iu in the afternoon on the rare occasion that I remember and can get to it...

After dropping both add ons (var and primo), for a couple weeks, considering adding back/keeping primo in at 100/week long term (probably ~ 15mg/day with 25mg test) as I like the feel and slight help with estro as I have not taken an AI in many years... still love the "less is more" daily or every other day dosing and avoiding things like AIs and ancillaries as much as I can. Will go just test and gh for a while and see if I "need" the primo for libido/mood help. Tried Kisspeptin10 in place of HCG for a while... seems to be ok but HCG/HMG together seems to be much stronger effect wise... for current purposes the KP10 can stay in place.

 

[Tomgrass]

Good to see that one of my favourite topics is still alive after recently bulking episode when even walking or pressing gas in car was painful I know that my days in chasing size are gone. I literally have to keep my weight as stable as possible to avoid potential problems.

 

[stintman]

2006 was the last time I competed. Broke my wrist and blew out my knee playing basketball; slowly healed up but had absolutely no energy without the drugs. Went to the Dr. got checked out and had a T level (quote from the Dr.) "testosterone level of a woman in menopause". I have worked my way up to 200mg a week of CYP with the Dr's bessing and actually with the peptides am finally getting back on top of my game. Periodically I drop down to 100mg of test and throw in 100 mg of Deca for 3 months. I also am not against taking 3IU's of Rips post work out; very moderate but I feel good.

where does your levels land at 200mg?

 

[Cerberus777]

Digging this back up!

Still on the same path... recently ran 25-30mg test (prop/enanth blend is perfect) with 30-50mg primo enanth daily (6 pins a week with one day "break") for about 4 months and slowly gained strength and felt great. Did a final 5 weeks with added anavar at just 10mg 2-3x a day and leaned up notably without much change to diet at all... about half the dosage of years prior and similar results... I did find I got indigestion quite a bit and cut the var to 10mg twice daily... still doing cialis at 10mg every other day so that combo may just be not ideal for me... but this is the first oral I have taken in a few years. GH still low as well at 2iu in the morn and training days occasionally another 2iu in the afternoon on the rare occasion that I remember and can get to it...

After dropping both add ons (var and primo), for a couple weeks, considering adding back/keeping primo in at 100/week long term (probably ~ 15mg/day with 25mg test) as I like the feel and slight help with estro as I have not taken an AI in many years... still love the "less is more" daily or every other day dosing and avoiding things like AIs and ancillaries as much as I can. Will go just test and gh for a while and see if I "need" the primo for libido/mood help. Tried Kisspeptin10 in place of HCG for a while... seems to be ok but HCG/HMG together seems to be much stronger effect wise... for current purposes the KP10 can stay in place.

How do you find KP10 for sides? HGC drives up my estrogen too much.

 

[hemipower]

How do you find KP10 for sides? HGC drives up my estrogen too much.

I find it very mild on all fronts... minor libido boost and doesn't seem to raise estro notably either... I'd think it boosts LH/FSH very little... but for current purposes that's ideal. Just a small boost.

 

[Cerberus777]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I stopped using SERM to gain testicular size, due to clotting risk. I don't need much from it.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I stopped using SERM to gain testicular size, due to clotting risk. I don't need much from it.

Which serm?

Raloxifene has a slight risk for clotting but the studies on my were done on one hundred people. One out of one hundred people had a blood clot on raloxifene, so they had to put this as a warning.

 

[Cerberus777]

Which serm?

Raloxifene has a slight risk for clotting but the studies on my were done on one hundred people. One out of one hundred people had a blood clot on raloxifene, so they had to put this as a warning.

IMHO ralox is too new and I feel it has the same risks as other SERMs. The others looked safe in their beginning as well. I'd use it short term. But not long term for ball size.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

IMHO ralox is too new and I feel it has the same risks as other SERMs. The others looked safe in their beginning as well. I'd use it short term. But not long term for ball size.

No , not for testes size. For blocking estrogen in breast, yes, like on cycle. I've heard for blocking progesterone as well?

A side benefit is raising cholesterol but not the number one reason to use it.

 

[Cerberus777]

No , not for testes size. For blocking estrogen in breast, yes, like on cycle. I've heard for blocking progesterone as well?

A side benefit is raising cholesterol but not the number one reason to use it.

Oh, yeah I keep it around for gyno flare ups use it for a week or 2.

 

[hemipower]

UPDATE...
Brought things down even further and feel great.

Only 20mg test and 20mg primo daily ... over 6 weeks into this lowered dose... slow steady progress (when training and diet are on point).
Alternating a couple months with GH at 5iu only pre workout MWF with and then a couple months 2iu daily... on most off days 500mcg Tesamorelin/250mcg Ipamorelin first thing in the am.
I wish I had cut back this far 10 years ago! I may try emeric protocol of 10mg/day test for a few months... that seems "too low" but seems many end up at 800-900 total and great free numbers wise... that's fine to cruise on then I can "blast" at 20-25 a day... ordered the Humanofort .. I have some hcg but he says no need.

Supplement wise still the essentials... Berberine, Curcumin, Omegas, beef liver/organs, DIM (finishing what I have, shouldn't need anything at 20mg test especially lean and with primo), Vit C, Vit D3/K2, greens, EAA intra workout, magnesium blend, and a custom made protein with whey, casein and collagen 1/3 each...

Also tried Tirzepatide to lean quickly for a beach vaca... and only did 1mg every 3rd day... and even that low dose helped with hunger while dieting and accelerated fat loss notably.