GLYCOGEN replenishment and mild cutting question

[ironserenity]

Hey everyone, here is my question with a quick overview of myself:

I'm 5'9 260-270 right now with about 20 inch arms and have been bodybuilding for a few years. I would consider myself a very knowledgable athlete when it comes to diet, nutrition, gear, training. Since discovering that I respond well to moderately high carbs, I haven't attempted to lean out. Fat always melted of with ease, so I never worried about it, but this winter i'm off gear and things are a little more difficult I'm finding, I'd like to drop a mere 3% to put me around 10-11%. I have been off of gear for about 6 months to reset my receptors, and I will go back on in mid-jan after my hernia surgery. But now for my question: I respond very well to a high carb diet. My body seems to stay outrageously full and pumped if I have my glycogen stores filled all the time, this generally means low glycemic carbs at night. So If I'm trying to lean out a bit and I do some cardio in the A.M. after an 8 hour fast, then i plan to weight train about 1-1.5 hours after that, at what point should I replenish my carbs from my cardio? I still want to "ride the wave" so to speak of as going as long without carbs after cardio as possible, but then on the other hand I have to at least carb up a bit to blunt my cortisol during my weight training.... See my predicament? Basically, I'm a dummy when it comes to leaning out, it always happened naturally in the past... Im sorry for such a long post, but could someone give me some insight......? Pleaasse? Thanks guys n gals

 

[thedonker]

i only wish fat melted of me with ease!

in brief I would try replacing some of your carbs with an essential fat source like UDO's KCAL for KCAL, replace like 30% of your carbs to start with (ie CARBS have 3.9kcal per gram and FATS have 9 kcal per gram but I sure you know that) it is different per individual you may not need to change it as much as 30% or maybe more, any how changing the macros slightly may acheive the results you want while continuing on your training regime without too much loss of energy etc. If this does not work then a more lower carb approach may be required, but I am pretty sure just a small change will help get you pushed in the right direction, and you have not got that much to lose so it should not even take long.The fats in UDO's are SOOO good for you on the most positive note, I look 5 years younger when I high dose them all my wrinkles heal up

Hope this help you out some.

 

[ironserenity]

Thanks thedonker! I will DEFINATELY try that. As you said, its only a short time and a small amount so i figure I should be able to drop before the MAJOR carb deficits take their toll!

 

[No-Go]

Have you thought about using a simple carb just to restore the glycogen stores that have been burnt off during running. Will also get you ready for your weight training

 

[ironserenity]

yes, I have NoGo. But here's my situation. After a cardio workout (in my case bike) You generally want to wait a little bit before giving your body carbs because it just enhances the fat incenerating effects, given in my case, I need to wait a little bit afte rmy cardio but still keep it long enough before my workout to account for digestion time. See what I'm getting at? Also, any input on how I should be supplementing my BCAA's would be appreciated, I can use all the input I can get. I've got plenty of size, I just want it to look a little more fierce at the moment... Thanks yal

 

[thedonker]

bcca everything you need right here in the articles forum

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8759

this is a great article, been a while since I read it but it should answer anything you want to know.

best regards

 

[ironserenity]

Great Article! thanks!

 

[Nat]

Hey Bro,

I can tell you what I do!

It comes from kind of a Dan Duchaine and Palumbo philosophy.

In the offseason when I start to get a little fat I take 10 days and go into ketosis and get rid of the extra body fat. What is cool about ketosis is that it is anticatoblic and keeps coritsol levels down and you wont loose much muscle as long as protein is high and your fats are right. Do a search on here with "Palumbo" and you will get the details.

I loose alot of bodyfat, but what is cool about this (here is the Duchaine side) I carb up for 3 days and an incredible supercompensation takes place.
After the carb up I am actually heavier then when I started the diet but I have lost a lot of fat. This is an incredible tool to use for you predicament.

One thing is I would do your research before doing this kind of diet because there are alot of varibales that need to go into the equation. Things like
protein consumption, fat consumption, and moderate carbs (very careful with carbs). And also incorporating a depletion workout (serious depletion workout) before you start your carb up. Insulin sensitivity is through the rough and your muscle soak up all those Waxy Maize carbs like a sponge.

Just my 2 cents! Hope it helps..

 

[Phidias]

Why don't you just workout first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and do your cardio session just after?

You'll burn a great deal of fat during the session, dramatically increase your metabolism for the day, and get plenty of time to replenish your glycogen levels once you're done.

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

Why don't you just workout first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and do your cardio session just after?

You'll burn a great deal of fat during the session, dramatically increase your metabolism for the day, and get plenty of time to replenish your glycogen levels once you're done.

IMO that just spells muscle loss dont you think?

 

[Phidias]

IMO that just spells muscle loss dont you think?

That's what I thought too before trying it

Now, everytime I can I train on an empty stomach... amazing how your workouts are better and how you'll be energized for the day

And like I just said in another thread about ECA, training in itself is catabolic... you rebuild muscle AFTER your workout

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

That's what I thought too before trying it

Now, everytime I can I train on an empty stomach... amazing how your workouts are better and how you'll be energized for the day

And like I just said in another thread about ECA, training in itself is catabolic... you rebuild muscle AFTER your workout

i just dont think i would ever have enough energy/strength to do it.

But your right training is catabolic reguardless. I just try to make it least catabolic as possible...

I think you may be better off have atleast a protein shake before training to halt of catabolism to a better degree.


Or what you could do is do your cardio on an empty stomach then hae a pro/fat meal then go train in an hour - 90 mins....

 

[mike1107]

i just dont think i would ever have enough energy/strength to do it.

But your right training is catabolic reguardless. I just try to make it least catabolic as possible...

I think you may be better off have atleast a protein shake before training to halt of catabolism to a better degree.


Or what you could do is do your cardio on an empty stomach then hae a pro/fat meal then go train in an hour - 90 mins....

bro, just try and enjoy trust me on it

cardio first, weight after and then replenish glycogen AFTER

but as u want to lose fat, I would stay as depleted as possible .... so don't overdo it on carbs post training .. and enjoy fat loss

 

[thedonker]

i just dont think i would ever have enough energy/strength to do it.

But your right training is catabolic reguardless. I just try to make it least catabolic as possible...

I think you may be better off have atleast a protein shake before training to halt of catabolism to a better degree.


Or what you could do is do your cardio on an empty stomach then hae a pro/fat meal then go train in an hour - 90 mins....

I power up in the morning when training in the morning with around 50grams of whey and 15 grams of udos wait around 15 mins while driving to gym then train, works well and I beleive that you will burn just as much fat using this method that on an empty stomach without any muscle catabolism, I have no proof that this works bette than the other it just makes sense, however I would thing that a BCAA/Glutamine drink would do the same thing and would be absorbed even faster. PWO usual whey again, I switch and change between morning a evening workout depending on my schedule, but neither is more conclusive for better gains, I do like the gym in the morning cos it is dead quiet, no waiting or people bothering you, perfect.

 

[ironserenity]

I agree with thedonker on his training idea and timing, that is closest to mine. So let me put this is the most basic way possibel I want to drop a little fat, but still keep my carb related fullness and pump... is it possible? or do I just have to sacrifice going flat for a lil while???

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

I agree with thedonker on his training idea and timing, that is closest to mine. So let me put this is the most basic way possibel I want to drop a little fat, but still keep my carb related fullness and pump... is it possible? or do I just have to sacrifice going flat for a lil while???

in a perfect world you would stay full as hell while dieting but it just doesnt work out... your going to feel a little flat its bound to happen. But thats why you set goals like dropping a lil BF and get through the stage and move on.

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

bro, just try and enjoy trust me on it

cardio first, weight after and then replenish glycogen AFTER

but as u want to lose fat, I would stay as depleted as possible .... so don't overdo it on carbs post training .. and enjoy fat loss

i might try it out... thanks for the tip

LOL i just dont think i have enough muscle mass yet and would waste away with that. I have to do morning cardio(low intensity) 4 days a week and i know after im done with the cardio i feel flat/weak as hell and need to get a meal in ASAP....

 

[Tyrone]

Bro this might help

I don't know where you're at diet/training wise but this works for me...
Wake up, take in a shit load of bcaa's...One of my favorites is LBA's. Take eca to get things rolling along with H20 about 30-50 mins. prior to cardio all the while eating nothing...
Do this and eat your first meal for the day right after. This keeps me from getting "catabolic" if anything close to it...

i might try it out... thanks for the tip

LOL i just dont think i have enough muscle mass yet and would waste away with that. I have to do morning cardio(low intensity) 4 days a week and i know after im done with the cardio i feel flat/weak as hell and need to get a meal in ASAP....

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

I don't know where you're at diet/training wise but this works for me...
Wake up, take in a shit load of bcaa's...One of my favorites is LBA's. Take eca to get things rolling along with H20 about 30-50 mins. prior to cardio all the while eating nothing...
Do this and eat your first meal for the day right after. This keeps me from getting "catabolic" if anything close to it...

nah i dont feel catabolic while doing cardio(i shouldnt have said flat but not certainly not as full as after having a couple meals in me)..... but i was referring more to training after i do it.

I wake up take some BCAA's then get my ass on the stepmill or whatever. But when im done im hungry as a horse and ready to put down some food. Ive been doing this for a year or so and works great for keeping me lean and appetite up.

 

[mike1107]

nah i dont feel catabolic while doing cardio(i shouldnt have said flat but not certainly not as full as after having a couple meals in me)..... but i was referring more to training after i do it.

I wake up take some BCAA's then get my ass on the stepmill or whatever. But when im done im hungry as a horse and ready to put down some food. Ive been doing this for a year or so and works great for keeping me lean and appetite up.

if u want to feel full of energy while cardio and lift, use ECA

Tyrone has an AWESOME ECA stack and for almost nothing

give it a try too bro ... low carb diet + cardio + ECA as a fat burner and get ready to melt fat