Growing after 40?

[BigTex]

It not my business, but you are using way to much. How old are you 50?

Emeric, I was thinking the same thing. It may only be you and me with this mind set but in my 27 years of competition my best lifts were set with only 250mg of testosterone enanthate/wk. Years down the road I take even less.

 

[powerof2]

Emeric, I was thinking the same thing. It may only be you and me with this mind set but in my 27 years of competition my best lifts were set with only 250mg of testosterone enanthate/wk. Years down the road I take even less.

I respect both of u guys opinion. What do u think is plenty for a bulk.


110% or expect to regret it!

 

[emeric delczeg]

Emeric, I was thinking the same thing. It may only be you and me with this mind set but in my 27 years of competition my best lifts were set with only 250mg of testosterone enanthate/wk. Years down the road I take even less.

No, there many others thinking the same way as you and me. It all depend on : 1.genetics, 2.nutrition 3.training and 4. Hormones in moderation.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I respect both of u guys opinion. What do u think is plenty for a bulk.


110% or expect to regret it!

First of all, before starting any androgens the person has to find out how his respond to androgens, starting with 500mg is not the correct way. Start with the minimum dose possible, for 8 weeks. I would suggest 140mg per week (20mg per day). If he gains 6 lbs muscle than the 140mg should be his blast. After the 8 weeks he will come down to 70mg for 6 to 8 weeks, during the 70mg per week he should be able to hold the size. Than go back to 140mg for 8 weeks if he gains on other 4 to 6 lbs than no reason to increase the dose, if he don`t than I would increase the dose to 200mg. It is very important to pay attention to training and nutrition all the time.

 

[lcsulla]

I have a buddy who got into this game very late. He started lifting at 39 and was a bean pole most of his life. After three years of lifting he had a decent base and put on about 25lbs up to 210ish. He just started his first cycle and is loving it. But I tell him his goal of 250lbs of lean muscle is a pipe dream since he got started so late.
But all he wants to do is more gear and all I can do is shake my head. Gear should be used to enhance you physique at 40+ not to try and push a guy into Ronnie size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigTex]

No, there many others thinking the same way as you and me. It all depend on : 1.genetics, 2.nutrition 3.training and 4. Hormones in moderation.

Absolutely!

Here is a research study that really opened my eyes.

Here is part of the study that should be particularly paid attention to:

Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone’s anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses (300-600mg these high doses are associated with a high frequency of adverse effects The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events, and significant gains in fatfree mass and muscle strength. (Older Men Are as Responsive as Young Men to the Anabolic Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on the Skeletal Muscle., J Clin Endocrinol Metab 90: 678–688, 2005)

 

[emeric delczeg]

I have a buddy who got into this game very late. He started lifting at 39 and was a bean pole most of his life. After three years of lifting he had a decent base and put on about 25lbs up to 210ish. He just started his first cycle and is loving it. But I tell him his goal of 250lbs of lean muscle is a pipe dream since he got started so late.
But all he wants to do is more gear and all I can do is shake my head. Gear should be used to enhance you physique at 40+ not to try and push a guy into Ronnie size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct. Enhance and increase the quality of his life.

 

[BigTex]

I respect both of u guys opinion. What do u think is plenty for a bulk.


110% or expect to regret it!

I always suggest to start very low and gradually work your way up and find a sweet spot that doesn't cause unsafe side effects. 90-123mg/wk is a great place to start with. I personally use testosterone undeconate. It is very long lasting and actually has a 20d 1/2 life. 100mg with no ester is 60mg of test base.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Absolutely!

Here is a research study that really opened my eyes.

Here is part of the study that should be particularly paid attention to:

Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone’s anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses (300-600mg these high doses are associated with a high frequency of adverse effects The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events, and significant gains in fatfree mass and muscle strength. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 90: 678–688, 2005)

Unfortunately not everybody doing research and try to get educated like you.

The mechanism of the steroid hormone homeostatic inhibition is the most sensitive point of the entire process when you use androgens. To much for to long it will cause inhibitory suppression on the hypothalamic production of corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH) and adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) secreted by the pituitary gland.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I always suggest to start very low and gradually work your way up and find a sweet spot that doesn't cause unsafe side effects. 90-123mg/wk is a great place to start with. I personally use testosterone undeconate. It is very long lasting and actually has a 20d 1/2 life. 100mg with no ester is 60mg of test base.

Very smart, it is very important that the blast should be not be longer than 8 weeks.

 

[BigTex]

Unfortunately not everybody doing research and try to get educated like you.

The mechanism of the steroid hormone homeostatic inhibition is the most sensitive point of the entire process when you use androgens. To much for to long it will cause inhibitory suppression on the hypothalamic production of corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH) and adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) secreted by the pituitary gland.

Now back in the late 70's and 80's we had no research other than steroids don't work. Hahaha.....the were working for us, so more must be better. 10cc of test at a time 5 anadrol and 100 dianabol. The results were not that good considering the huge amounts I was wasting, but also because my training, nutrition and lifestyle honestly sucked. Then come the side effects, blood pressure extremely high, bloated like a frog, and even jaundice. Heck I was in my mid 20's to early 30's then. As I matured and paid more attention to the small things like training, diet, rest, lifestyle and then drugs I realized that I put my health at risk, and wasted a huge amount of money. As I said earlier, for the 20 years of my 27 years of my competition I started really changing my training and diet. Lifestyle and rest also fell inline. I used 250mg of testosterone enanthate during this time. I tried 300 for a couple of weeks and found it was too much.

Testosterone is now my base, I will cycle anabolics with this, Anavar, Primabolin, Winstrol or even trenbolone. Most I have listened to tell you to take 300-600mg of tren. Holy shit, I tried 200mg/wk and wanted to rip my head off. So I backed it down and found 100-150mg/wk is more than enough. Now I actually do 20mg EOD sub Q. 60-80mg/wk. I get adequate strength gains, and great muscle hardness.

HGH is great stuff....been using that and peptides since 2007. But these guys who are to 10iu+/d, WOW! Glad you make more money than I do but I can't afford that kind of a dose or can I tolerate it. 2iu for me is plenty. Not that there are guys who can do 4iu but if 2iu does the track, then why waste good HGH?

 

[Big Slice]

Being ripped with abs is the ticket.I have been 240 plus around 13% nobody ever said a word.when i was 208 around 7% all day long people said how great I looked.Get ripped get tanned who cares about being big with high bp unless you compete or you are insecure.

 

[lcsulla]

You are correct. Enhance and increase the quality of his life.

One other thing that has occurred to me recently and I wonder if you or BigTex could chime in is: that higher use gets your body accustomed to converting huge amounts of test (this in particular) so when you finally decide to go on TRT it's not nearly as effective.
I have seen more then a few posts from guys saying that they decided to finally do low dose trt and move away from massive blasts and they don't convert it nearly as well anymore. Matt Porter on his IG page wrote that two different pharmacies Human grade gave him underdosed gear because he was injecting 300mgs a week and only testing at 650 for his test level. I think it's because his body became accustomed to high levels of test and low levels are just seen as shit to his body.

Any insight into this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[powerof2]

One other thing that has occurred to me recently and I wonder if you or BigTex could chime in is: that higher use gets your body accustomed to converting huge amounts of test (this in particular) so when you finally decide to go on TRT it's not nearly as effective.
I have seen more then a few posts from guys saying that they decided to finally do low dose trt and move away from massive blasts and they don't convert it nearly as well anymore. Matt Porter on his IG page wrote that two different pharmacies Human grade gave him underdosed gear because he was injecting 300mgs a week and only testing at 650 for his test level. I think it's because his body became accustomed to high levels of test and low levels are just seen as shit to his body.

Any insight into this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It seems that way for me. Been on dr test @ 200mg for 7 years. I have only been running gear 13 years. I personally don't think I respond to 500 mg test. Maybe it's all in my head though. I find can't go as high as I did in the past. If I go much over 1500 total mg I feel like shit! Seeing all the people that are much more experienced than I am running lower doses and still kicking ass makes me wonder if I need to change things up


110% or expect to regret it!

 

[emeric delczeg]

One other thing that has occurred to me recently and I wonder if you or BigTex could chime in is: that higher use gets your body accustomed to converting huge amounts of test (this in particular) so when you finally decide to go on TRT it's not nearly as effective.
I have seen more then a few posts from guys saying that they decided to finally do low dose trt and move away from massive blasts and they don't convert it nearly as well anymore. Matt Porter on his IG page wrote that two different pharmacies Human grade gave him underdosed gear because he was injecting 300mgs a week and only testing at 650 for his test level. I think it's because his body became accustomed to high levels of test and low levels are just seen as shit to his body.

Any insight into this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You body never get accustomed , it losses sensivety.

 

[emeric delczeg]

It seems that way for me. Been on dr test @ 200mg for 7 years. I have only been running gear 13 years. I personally don't think I respond to 500 mg test. Maybe it's all in my head though. I find can't go as high as I did in the past. If I go much over 1500 total mg I feel like shit! Seeing all the people that are much more experienced than I am running lower doses and still kicking ass makes me wonder if I need to change things up


110% or expect to regret it!

On other problem with injecting high doses of test is that a small percentage, just 0.2%, of testosterone is converted to estrogen.

This may looks insignificant but estradiol is 100 times more potent at the cell receptor site than testosterone. This means that you would needs 100 times more testosterone than estrogen just to have an equal affinity for the receptor.

That why I suggest small amount more frequent.

 

[BigTex]

One other thing that has occurred to me recently and I wonder if you or BigTex could chime in is: that higher use gets your body accustomed to converting huge amounts of test (this in particular) so when you finally decide to go on TRT it's not nearly as effective.
I have seen more then a few posts from guys saying that they decided to finally do low dose trt and move away from massive blasts and they don't convert it nearly as well anymore. Matt Porter on his IG page wrote that two different pharmacies Human grade gave him underdosed gear because he was injecting 300mgs a week and only testing at 650 for his test level. I think it's because his body became accustomed to high levels of test and low levels are just seen as shit to his body.

Any insight into this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have never seen any evidence to assume this is true. As I said, in my pasts I used huge amounts. When you get side effects is when you take in much more of a drug that the body can clear in a period of time. Thus it builds up in the blood and starts causing issues. Taking time off clears the blood of the drug.

I decided to go on lower doses not because of TRT, but only because I found the lower doses caused the same growth without all the side effects. I have no problem getting very good results at much lower doses.

If you are injecting 300mg of test per week and only getting 650 for a total test level then there is a problem somewhere. Normal total test levels for men 45-55 is 606ng/dl. I don't know who old this guy is if in fact his testosterone was any good or anything so I will say this is not normal.

Another thing I have to say.....people tell me all the time how great they feel when they are on testosterone. Really. I don't feel any different but know from the results it is doing the job. I have been on TRT for several years now without coming off so this good feeling that many tout is just normal for me.

 

[man-of-steel]

One other thing that has occurred to me recently and I wonder if you or BigTex could chime in is: that higher use gets your body accustomed to converting huge amounts of test (this in particular) so when you finally decide to go on TRT it's not nearly as effective.
I have seen more then a few posts from guys saying that they decided to finally do low dose trt and move away from massive blasts and they don't convert it nearly as well anymore. Matt Porter on his IG page wrote that two different pharmacies Human grade gave him underdosed gear because he was injecting 300mgs a week and only testing at 650 for his test level. I think it's because his body became accustomed to high levels of test and low levels are just seen as shit to his body.

Any insight into this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From what i understand Matt was off for a period of time. Before he started hrt. He was getting good results with some Pharm grade and not with others.

 

[lcsulla]

From what i understand Matt was off for a period of time. Before he started hrt. He was getting good results with some Pharm grade and not with others.

Hmmm. What I read was that he thought both of the human grade test he got was under dosed. Did he do a third one?

 

[LK3]

The upside of starting at 40 is being new to the juice.
You just bypassed 20 yrs or so of damage from yrs of dosing.
Luckily for me I lifted for 12 yrs, till 30 juice free. At 40 I put on 48lbs in one yr due to muscle memory and too much createne...
Still 30 lbs of muscle and 18 lbs of water.....Not bad.
At 48 I think I may come into summer my Best Yet as far as bodybuilding.

lol
I was gona go back n quote big tex but right here is my point!

the guys who put time in and built a base naturally when young are totally different animals then the ones just starting late in life.

even if it was very young. take a guy who was a real athlete in hs then real athlete at college level or similar... they have a base! they put the work in on the boring shit. probably focus on the big three lifts. 10 years of work right there.

lets say 10 years off.

that dude is gona go to the gym no gear and mutate for the first 3-6 months, then lets say he gets itchy n trys a lil cycle, again, gona blow the fuck up, like a 20 year old at first cycle...

in a year two tops that guy is gona be far beyond his previous best and looking great in the gym..

his work buddy was a lazy fuck from the get go n now wants to do something about it. is NOT going to have anywhere neat that experience, even if they had great genetics age is gona limit progress severely.

two totally different creature.

the second are the ones that push the doses and change there training program every 3 months n cant figure out why they don't look like the other guy... lol
:lightbulb: