gyno - nolva

[phatkid77]

i thought i posted this this AM....

what is the typical dose and length for nolva to treat gyno...

thanks

phats

 

[Dad]

Nolvadex nor anything else treats existing gyno - only surgery does that.

Anti-estrogens help prevent gyno by keeping estrogen levels low, but do not remove breast tissue that has already developed.

 

[BigNJ]

Nolvadex will help contain the problem and perhaps shrink your gyno.

I would use Arimidex instead at 0.5 to 1mg per day instead.

 

[phatkid77]

yeah i want the novla to shrink it, then shoot for adex at 1/4mg /EOday for my HRT

phats

 

[Dad]

Nolvadex will help contain the problem and perhaps shrink your gyno.

I would use Arimidex instead at 0.5 to 1mg per day instead.

"Shrink" gyno? In what way?

Show me the literature that shows ANY anti-estrogen "shrinks" or removes existing breast tissue.

 

[Dad]

**broken link removed**

NO anti-estrogen removes breast tissue already formed. Remove the water retention from excess estrogen? Yes. Remove breast tissue - ducts, etc? No.

Tapering ANY first-order kinetcs drug is unnecassary. They exhibit exponential decay-type elimination. If yuo get estrogen "rebound" it simply shows yuo weren't on long enough for HPT axis function to normalise, and estrogen production to be at normal limits as the body is still aromatising androgens.

Yuo guys need to learn from something other than online forums.

 

[Beta]

femara didn't help me a ton, but it comes more highly recommended than the nolva for breast tissue issues.

I had a lot of mental side effects from it for what its worth, I did not enjoy it. (Dreams, sleep issues, it was nuts)

 

[Swifto]

"Shrink" gyno? In what way?

Show me the literature that shows ANY anti-estrogen "shrinks" or removes existing breast tissue.

Although there isnt anything solid (though I think there is a study on Rolax treating existing gyno in pubertal boys...I'll look for it), Rolax treatment for an extended peroids may work. I have seen a few recent threads pop up regaridng Rolax's effectiveness and affinity to breast tissue. That, combined with an AI, such as Aromasin or Letro, may aid in any reduction. I recently read a post at AM, stating Rolax treatment for 10+ weeks with an AI, vastly helped reduce a lump/puffyness.

I'm actually trying a similiar protocol soon. Rolax + Letro.

 

[KillerStack]

Although there isnt anything solid (though I think there is a study on Rolax treating existing gyno in pubertal boys...I'll look for it), Rolax treatment for an extended peroids may work. I have seen a few recent threads pop up regaridng Rolax's effectiveness and affinity to breast tissue. That, combined with an AI, such as Aromasin or Letro, may aid in any reduction. I recently read a post at AM, stating Rolax treatment for 10+ weeks with an AI, vastly helped reduce a lump/puffyness.

I'm actually trying a similiar protocol soon. Rolax + Letro.

I don't know if the gyno "disappears" but it can definitely shrink enough so it's no longer detectable by palpation. But once you've had a fibrous lump it typically comes back very quickly once you reintroduce the drugs that caused it, and/or stop the anti-estrogen.

 

[phatkid77]

Studies in support:

* Nolvadex to treat/reduce gyno *

Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen.
Khan HN, Rampaul R, Blamey RW.
Professorial Unit of Surgery, Department of Surgery, Nottingham City Hospital, Nottingham NG5 1PB, UK.

AIMS: We aimed to confirm suggestions that tamoxifen therapy alone may resolve physiological gynaecomastia. METHODS: A prospective audit of the outcome of tamoxifen routinely given to men with physiological gynaecomastia was carried out at Nottingham. Men referred with gynaecomastia had clinical signs recorded, e.g., type (diffuse 'fatty' or retro-areolar 'lump'), size and possible aetiology. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. On follow-up patients were assessed for complete resolution (CR), partial resolution where patient is satisfied with outcome (PR) or no resolution (NR). Success was either CR or PR. RESULTS: Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. Median age was 31 (range 18-64). Tenderness was present in 25 (71%) cases. Sixteen men (45%) had 'fatty' gynaecomastia and 20 had 'lump' gynaecomastia. Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041). CONCLUSIONS: Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

Prevention and management of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain: randomized endocrinologic and clinical studies with tamoxifen and anastrozole.
Saltzstein D, Sieber P, Morris T, Gallo J.
Urology San Antonio Research PA, Pasteur Medical Plaza, San Antonio, Texas, USA.

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial involving 107 men receiving bicalutamide ('Casodex') 150 mg/day therapy following radical therapy for prostate cancer assessed tamoxifen ('Nolvadex') 20 mg/day and anastrozole ('Arimidex') 1 mg/day for the prophylaxis and treatment of gynecomastia/breast pain. Tamoxifen, but not anastrozole, significantly reduced the incidence of gynecomastia/breast pain when used prophylactically and therapeutically. Serum testosterone levels increased with tamoxifen relative to placebo but prostate-specific antigen levels declined in all treatment groups. Further studies are needed to define the optimum tamoxifen dose and to assess any impact on cancer control. The use of tamoxifen in this setting remains to be investigated.



Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a double-blind crossover study.
Parker LN, Gray DR, Lai MK, Levin ER.

Benign asymptomatic or painful enlargement of the male breast is a common problem, postulated to be due to an increased estrogen/testosterone ration or due to increased estrogenic or decreased androgenic stimulation via estrogen or androgen receptor interactions. Treatment at present consists of analgesic medication or surgery. However, treatment directed against the preponderance of estrogenic stimulation would seem to represent a more specific form of therapy. In the present double-blind crossover study, one-month courses of a placebo or the antiestrogen tamoxifen (10 mg given orally bid) were compared in random order. Seven of ten patients experienced a decrease in the size of their gynecomastia due to tamoxifen (P less than 0.005). Overall, the decrease for gynecomastia for the whole group was significant (P less than 0.01). There was no beneficial effect of placebo (P greater than 0.1). Additionally, all four patients with painful gynecomastia experienced symptomatic relief. There was no toxicity. The reduction of breast size was partial and may indicate the need for a longer course of therapy. A followup examination was performed in eight out of ten patients nine months to one year after discontinuing placebo and tamoxifen. There were no significant changes from the end of the initial study period except for one tamoxifen responder who developed a recurrence of breast tenderness after six months, and one nonresponder who demonstrated an increase in breast size and a new onset of tenderness after ten months. Therefore, antiestrogenic treatment with tamoxifen may represent a safe and effective mode of treatment for selected cases of cosmetically disturbing or painful gynecomastia.

 

[phatkid77]

bump for
DAD

 

[Dad]

Thanks for the link, but would need to see the entire study.

"Lump type" is not defined in these abstracts (nor would yuo expect it to be), and "reduction" does not state just what is reduced. THese clarifications may be in the body of the paper.

My guess is that "lump" size is reduced as this is estrogen senstive, but removal of breast tissue - ducts, etc - is not achieved.

So...bottom line, will gyno appear smaller, and will it be less painful? Probably. Will there be an actually reduction of tissues (this would involve the apoptosis of tissue cells)? No.

 

[Beta]

so essentially tamoxifen is only effective for the duration of the course?

 

[oskie]

It has reduced some when I take nolva.....I've noticed it within 3 weeks or so...
I know if I use d-bol usually by week 3-4 they start screaming...thats why I don't use d-bol any more...

 

[db006]

bump for dad to draw me a conclusion....

would the femara protocol in the link be worth trying for pre existing? if not what would i want to try and what protocol would be best?