Has Finasteride Hindered Your Gains?

[myosin]

There is some thought that because Finasteride reduces the conversion of T to DHT, strength gains are sometimes hindered.

Second- while strength and muscle size are not always directly correlated (muscle insertion, joint dynamics, technique, CNS involvement, etc.) the other concern is that LBM gains may not be as proficient also.

Has anyone found either of these true for themselves? If so, was it all that significant?

 

[Monte Brogan]

There is some thought that because Finasteride reduces the conversion of T to DHT, strength gains are sometimes hindered.

Second- while strength and muscle size are not always directly correlated (muscle insertion, joint dynamics, technique, CNS involvement, etc.) the other concern is that LBM gains may not be as proficient also.

Has anyone found either of these true for themselves? If so, was it all that significant?

In my experience, yes, but I haven't used gear for years due to MPB. I used finasteride and/or dutasteride for over 5 years. The drug gave me gyno - which required surgery to remove - and ruined my ability to get lean. My abs disappeared. When did I get them back? I'll let you know when it happens. I stopped dutasteride nine months ago and I'm still trying to burn off the fat.

Would my experience have been different if I was taking 400 mg cyp each week (to keep the test/estogen ratio in check)? Who knows.

Bottom line, DHT antagonizes estogen in the male body, which is a good thing. Inhibiting this hormone is a bad idea for men.

Best,
Monte

 

[Macro]

most people use WAY, WAY too much finasteride. low dose finasteride and nizoral shampoo is a much better solution. IMO anything over .5mg ed or even eod is too much for most people without known 5 alpha reductase issues

 

[617ricky]

most people use WAY, WAY too much finasteride. low dose finasteride and nizoral shampoo is a much better solution. IMO anything over .5mg ed or even eod is too much for most people without known 5 alpha reductase issues

This is definitely true.. There were studies done with much smaller doses than the typical 1mg, and they showed that 0.2mg was nearly as effective as the 1mg.. But the drug company has no interest in corroborating this.. Another myth I hear alot is people saying to take finasteride 2x a day since it has a short half-life.. While it does have a short half-life, that has nothing to do with how long it's effective in the body, which is around 48 hrs.. So you only have to actually take EOD.. I get the generic 5mg pills, and I break them into 6 pieces, and take a piece EOD..

 

[Newman]

Bottom line, DHT antagonizes estogen in the male body, which is a good thing. Inhibiting this hormone is a bad idea for men.

Just to clarify, are you saying that it's a bad thing to inhibit estrogen in the male body?

I know that guys need some estrogen, but don't need much compared to our need for test.

Aromasin & Letro are meant for preventing test aromatization to estradiol, so it can't be too good to leave estradiol coursing through our tissues, particularly prostate tissues...

 

[EasyEJL]

Just to clarify, are you saying that it's a bad thing to inhibit estrogen in the male body?

I know that guys need some estrogen, but don't need much compared to our need for test.

Aromasin & Letro are meant for preventing test aromatization to estradiol, so it can't be too good to leave estradiol coursing through our tissues, particularly prostate tissues...

the ratios of all the hormones count as much as the amounts.

 

[Newman]

the ratios of all the hormones count as much as the amounts.

I would like to see some proof of that.

I'm not saying that we should have our hormones in a naturally ballanced ratio, what I'm saying is that as AAS users, we are waaaaaay off from normal hormone levels anyway, so I'm thinking that if we are going to be juicing 10 times more test than a teenage boy, we DON'T need to have 10 times the estrogen too.

We take in excess endogenous test to ehance muscle metabolism, but what practical use does a surplus of extra estrogen serve in a MALE BBer? Gyno? Prostate cancer? Mood swings?

No thanks, I'll bump up my test & keep my estrogen at NORMAL levels. (or close to it)

 

[EasyEJL]

maybe i should have said "almost as much" I recall seeing studies somewhere, but will take some time to find them. it had to do with high DHT levels raising PSA levels more when other hormone levels were out of balance, but the details are escaping me. Was a while ago when I read it, had to do with the idea of using DHT gel instead of testosterone for TRT.

 

[rider7667]

Just posted this on another thread....


" Speaking of Finasteride and hair loss... I hear there is a test that a man can take to see if Finasteride will work to prevent hair loss for you or not... so does that mean that not everyone it will prevent hair loss on?? If so that sux!! Also, is there a way to test how my DHT /Androgen activity is happening in the scalp? Was thinking of upping my 1mg Finasteride to 5mg for my upcoming Sust Cycle to prevent the xtra DHT that comes from more test... good idea?"

 

[Newman]

Maybe I should have said "almost as much" I recall seeing studies somewhere, but will take some time to find them.

It had to do with high DHT levels raising PSA levels more when other hormone levels were out of balance, but the details are escaping me.

Was a while ago when I read it, had to do with the idea of using DHT gel instead of testosterone for TRT.

I'd really love to get the details on that.

In the mean time, read Macros' post here:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47417

It's post #9 in that thread.

In that post, he mentions that DHT is usually blamed for prostate problems, but it's really more estrogen and/or prolactin that are the primary causes.

If you can relocate the references to your position that ratio is more important than volume, I'd be very interested in reading it all.

The thing is, you might be right, perhaps ratio is as important as volume, but then we're all playing roulette with our prostates, right?

 

[myosin]

All good stuff,but...

This has been pretty informative and a good discussion, thanks. But... I still need to ask my original question- has finasteride hindered your gains? I'm guessing many professional BB's are on it and it obviously hasn't hurt them too much, but, most likely, they are also on a decent amount of ancillaries.

So, for your "average" (whatever that means, 200mg/week, etc.) BB, has it affected your lean mass and/or strength gains?

 

[Pekkerwood]

I took finasteride for many years while on cycle to combat hairloss. It is very hard to tell if it inhibited gains. I did make constant gains on it but its difficult to tell if I would have made more. Even if it did inhibit gains I would have taken it to not have a rug in my shower drain every time I showered.

 

[myosin]

Good point...

I took finasteride for many years while on cycle to combat hairloss. It is very hard to tell if it inhibited gains. I did make constant gains on it but its difficult to tell if I would have made more. Even if it did inhibit gains I would have taken it to not have a rug in my shower drain every time I showered.

I was wondering the same thing Pekker, how would one know? I suppose maybe if someone had been cycling for a long time and knew their body enough might have some idea if they then added Finasteride. But, even then it might be difficult due to various reasons- current lifestyle, diet, training,etc. Again, good point. Thanks.

 

[j4ever]

When i started taking fina ( about 7 months ago ) i did well with 1mg ed after 5-6 months i think it hindered my gains but only slightly ( by gains i mean strength/muscle gain ) what i noticed most was i was looking softer and slightly puffy nips so i backed down to 1mg eod,puffy nips gone and dropped a little bf,strength going up slowly. I will say that it has help thicken my hair and slow the receding BUT the receding has not stopped. also i have not been on cycle for awhile.

 

[Dezzy]

most people use WAY, WAY too much finasteride. low dose finasteride and nizoral shampoo is a much better solution. IMO anything over .5mg ed or even eod is too much for most people without known 5 alpha reductase issues

I agree this is what I do...