HCG advice

Conan21 · May 5, 2005

I just got blood results on my test levels and here they are

Total Test --- 196 range 241-827
Free Test-----9.33 range 5-21
LH------------3 range 1.5-9.3
FSH-----------2 range 1.4-18.1

I have been off for a LONG time and was surprised they would be this low. I've always just ran clomid for my cycles. I have not used HCG ever before.

I want to try to bring this up natural before i resort to HRT for life. I want to ask all of your opinions on this on how to i should dose this. Keep in mind. I am NOT on gear right now and have not been for awhile. I'm asking because my doctor does not seem very professional; he iddn't even show up for 2 of my 3 apts. I talked about this with TP4U before but i forget his recomendation so please respond here again bro if u could.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

TooPowerful4u · May 5, 2005

2k IU intramuscular mon/wed/fri for 2 weeks

mdr · May 6, 2005

TooPowerful4u said:
2k IU intramuscular mon/wed/fri for 2 weeks

That's about right. I ran 1k iu a day for 10 straight days. (500 iu in the morning & 500 iu in the afternoon). It worked great for me. Along with the clomid.

Snarf · May 6, 2005

HCG may help you, although you may just be hypogonadal. Have you had Test levels done before? What were your values?

Your other lab values look ok, so right now your body thinks that amount of total test is ok. Also, your free test is in the normal range and that is what is biologically active.

You can try to run the HCG. Keep in mind that I would not go over 2 weeks. You can shut down / suppress your HPTA with HCG just like running a regular cycle. I would also run some Nolvadex with the HCG. This will help prevent burning out your Leydig cells with the high dose HCG. If yo udamage your Leydig cells, you will induce primary hypogonadism and then you are on HRt for life.

You don't need to do AM and PM shots with HCG. Its half life is long enough your can 3x per week injections and achieve steady blood levels.

Hope this helps.

Conan21 · May 6, 2005

Snarf

do you think the 2,000 IU M W F is a good protocol like TP4U said?
how much anti-Es would u recomend.

these numbers seem to be on the very low end.
LH------------3 range 1.5-9.3
FSH-----------2 range 1.4-18.1

xcelbeyond · May 6, 2005

Doing more than 1500iu per shot can damage leydig cells http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190

IMHO - I won't do it post cycle as it keeps your HPTA shut down.

All stuff that Snarf stated also.

bigdho · May 6, 2005

Would you say that dr swales method of runnin 500-1000iu m w f throughout the cycle is a good way to keep your natural test levels up? also if your interested I have a good artical on cronic suppresion and how to treat it Ill have to dig it up, let me know if your interested in it.

xcelbeyond · May 7, 2005

I think it will help save your nutz size

If you're supplementing with endogenous testosterone (gear) your natural test is gonna shut down, regardless.

Conan21 · May 7, 2005

bigdo

that would be great

TooPowerful4u · May 7, 2005

his problem, you are all missing, is he IS off and hes shut down and has atrophy. If he does the 2k Mon/Wed/Fri for 2 weeks like i told his ass to do, itl "prep" his system to get going again, give it a lil kick start, BRING HIS NUTS BACK TO NORMAL SIZE so theyr ready to start workin. every agree?

TooPowerful4u · May 7, 2005

xcelbeyond said:
Doing more than 1500iu per shot can damage leydig cells http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190

IMHO - I won't do it post cycle as it keeps your HPTA shut down.

All stuff that Snarf stated also.

Oh and i know a few big time docs that suggest 2k IU mon/wed/Fri to recover. Vander also has a big time sports med doc that told him the SAME THING. Its only for 2 weeks, hel be fine, and itl get him goin. Hes shut down ANYWAY, hcg isnt gonna make him MORE shut down.

xcelbeyond · May 7, 2005

HCG "simulates" (not "stimulates") LH release - so it will keep you shut down 'cause your body isn't going to produce it. It's like when your thyroid shuts down, you NEED to take T-3. Or, when your natural test shuts down, you need test.

I'm pretty sure this is what Big A says also.
Dr Swale is an HRT Specialist, I'm not saying your doc friend is wrong - do they specialize in HRT (unfortunately, most docs are really clueless).

Snarf · May 7, 2005

His LH, FSH and Free Test are within the normal range, so YES, he could shut himself down further with overuse of HCG.

I would go ahead and run the HCG for 10-14 days with Nolvadex. This may stimulate the testes enough to increase test production. However, if your LH stays on the low end of normal, it is only going to tell your nuts to make a certain amount of test. Your testes basically produce test based on the amount of LH. Sperm production is largely based on FSH.

I think running 500IU HCG every 5-7 days during your cycle is a great idea and may help prevent this situation.

bigdho · May 11, 2005

Conan21 said:
bigdo

that would be great

Ill dig it up...............

bigdho · May 11, 2005

Here it is. I think its by Dr Swale but Im not sure. It sounds a lot like what TP4U is sayin.

My recipe for chronic suppression

1. Get blood testing for the following: Total Testos; Free and Weakly Bound Testos; estradiol (estrogen); prolactin; LH; FSH. This will give us an excellent picture of the state of the HPTA

2. Do an eight-week recovery cycle now.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily; 50mg clomid daily. This will stimulate testicular mass increase and stimulate the pituitary to produce LH and FSH. It will also prevent estrogen sides, for estrogen receptors will be blocked.
Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily; 50mg clomid daily.
Weeks seven, eight: Retest blood levels, as mentioned above.

If levels are not normal, then redo recovery cycle and retest. The only way to know that the recovery is working is by blood testing. You cannot go by subjective feeling alone. I have outlined this recovery cycle many times here. It works..my clients recover consistently.

bigdho · May 12, 2005

bigdho said:
Here it is. I think its by Dr Swale but Im not sure. It sounds a lot like what TP4U is sayin.

My recipe for chronic suppression

1. Get blood testing for the following: Total Testos; Free and Weakly Bound Testos; estradiol (estrogen); prolactin; LH; FSH. This will give us an excellent picture of the state of the HPTA

2. Do an eight-week recovery cycle now.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily; 50mg clomid daily. This will stimulate testicular mass increase and stimulate the pituitary to produce LH and FSH. It will also prevent estrogen sides, for estrogen receptors will be blocked.
Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily; 50mg clomid daily.
Weeks seven, eight: Retest blood levels, as mentioned above.

If levels are not normal, then redo recovery cycle and retest. The only way to know that the recovery is working is by blood testing. You cannot go by subjective feeling alone. I have outlined this recovery cycle many times here. It works..my clients recover consistently.

Bump for Conan21

AWN2004 · May 13, 2005

I feel Clomid is useless and in my opinion 1000ius every 3 days is fine for a total of 5000ius taken total. I used 20mgs for 30 days (Nolva) in conjunction and felt fine. I agree to not over use HCG...once your Leydigs are fried.....say goodbye to your nuts for a long time if not forever.

Conan21 · May 13, 2005

thanks bigdo

I just got my script of HCG yesterday.

he put me on .3 ml .......2 times a week.
I think Vanders doc had him on something similar as well dosage wise.

i asked him about taking nolvadex along with it and he said it was not necessary.

seems what he told me was entirely different than what i've read on here???

bigdho · May 13, 2005

That doesnt shock me to much, its seems there is so much conflicting info on HCG and post cycle therapy its hard to know which is right. Good luck bro.