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Heart Rate

maldorf

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I appreciate your feedback. Basically what I wrote above is all the info they really provided. I'm hoping everything is good (fingers crossed).

Wondering if you got an ejection fraction for your LV? Around 60% or so is normal. Higher is better of course. The left ventricle hypertrophy is mostly from doing weightlifting exercises and is normal for that population. It is ok as long as the wall motion is normal. If the walls of your heart are real thick and stiff then they wont squeeze well and the ejection fraction drops. Don't want those walls too thick. Aerobic exercise doesn't produce that kind of growth and is more healthy for the heart. Here is a study on aerobic exercise on men that had hypertension and left ventricle hypertrophy. The hypertrophy can also come about from having high blood pressure. I think that when you lift weights it produces high blood pressure if only for a short time and that stresses the heart, especially if you don't breathe right.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199511303332204
 

XstarchildX

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Wondering if you got an ejection fraction for your LV? Around 60% or so is normal. Higher is better of course. The left ventricle hypertrophy is mostly from doing weightlifting exercises and is normal for that population. It is ok as long as the wall motion is normal. If the walls of your heart are real thick and stiff then they wont squeeze well and the ejection fraction drops. Don't want those walls too thick. Aerobic exercise doesn't produce that kind of growth and is more healthy for the heart. Here is a study on aerobic exercise on men that had hypertension and left ventricle hypertrophy. The hypertrophy can also come about from having high blood pressure. I think that when you lift weights it produces high blood pressure if only for a short time and that stresses the heart, especially if you don't breathe right.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199511303332204
Very good read! I appreciate it.

Not sure if they can calculate EF on a stress test? I'll email my doc!
 

XstarchildX

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Doc wanted to do testosterone labs on me and I was worried since I was coming off a blast. I waited 7 days since a pin of 250mg to have the labs done and this is where I ended up. Pretty good if you ask me haha. Timed it perfectly.
 

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maldorf

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Very good read! I appreciate it.

Not sure if they can calculate EF on a stress test? I'll email my doc!

Well, you mentioned wall thickness so I was wondering how they got that. Did you have an imaging done after you were on the treadmill?
 

XstarchildX

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Well, you mentioned wall thickness so I was wondering how they got that. Did you have an imaging done after you were on the treadmill?
He had something around my midsection as well as the 12 lead EKG's. He mentioned that it takes pictures and the pictures were adequate. I'm assuming there were visuals but I didn't see them lol.
 

maldorf

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He had something around my midsection as well as the 12 lead EKG's. He mentioned that it takes pictures and the pictures were adequate. I'm assuming there were visuals but I didn't see them lol.

Hum, that might be some relatively new device I am not aware of. Sounds cool. The stuff I am familiar with is 10 years old or more, lol. I took some cardiac rehab classes back in 1994 in graduate school and learned how to read EKgs and doppler.
 

XstarchildX

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Another quick update: Spoke with my PCP this morning and he went ahead and ordered an echo for me. The earliest available is the 31st, but looks like I'm getting it done then. Celebrating the new year with medical tests. Go me! Lol.
 

Delt123

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Another quick update: Spoke with my PCP this morning and he went ahead and ordered an echo for me. The earliest available is the 31st, but looks like I'm getting it done then. Celebrating the new year with medical tests. Go me! Lol.

Honping you can celebrate new year healthy and care free
 

whatsupfister

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I will now and forever contest that your heart rate has nothing at all to do with your heart health. If increased heart rate is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health.

If you have no heart defects, or other cardiovascular problems, than an increased heart rate can not be considered any kind of legitimate health concern. Certain medications cause an increase in heart rate, but these medications are not considered dangerous to your heart. Just like exercise of any kind will cause an increase to your heart rate but have no negative side effects. No medical journals have ever attributed exercise with negative side effects to heart health, when the exercise was done in moderate to median proportion.

Saying heart rate is bad for the heart, with no heart defects or other medical problems, is flat out untrue and totally unsubstantiated by any medical professional. To believe that an increased heart rate is bad for you, than you must also agree that any form of exercise that raises your heart rate from it's resting rate, is dangerous and should be avoided. If something is bad, it can not be considered good as well.

Finally, your heart rate, is your hearts response, to the request of your nervous system, to deliver oxygen throughout the body, in the form of blood circulation. This regulation of blood flow, is controlled by your brain, and your brain can be influenced to demand more blood flow, for a plethora of different reasons. Exercise, stress, excitement, fear, anxiety, or drug use, prescribed, or not, all play a factor on your bodies heart rate. The only things that should ever concern you regarding your heart rate, would be if your heart rate is irregular, due to a defect in your heart, or if your heart is not getting enough blood due to a blockage in your arteries.

If your heart has no defects and your arteries have no calcification/blockages, than your heart rate can be as high as you want it to be, all day every day with no negative side effects to your health.
 

XstarchildX

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I will now and forever contest that your heart rate has nothing at all to do with your heart health. If increased heart rate is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health.

If you have no heart defects, or other cardiovascular problems, than an increased heart rate can not be considered any kind of legitimate health concern. Certain medications cause an increase in heart rate, but these medications are not considered dangerous to your heart. Just like exercise of any kind will cause an increase to your heart rate but have no negative side effects. No medical journals have ever attributed exercise with negative side effects to heart health, when the exercise was done in moderate to median proportion.

Saying heart rate is bad for the heart, with no heart defects or other medical problems, is flat out untrue and totally unsubstantiated by any medical professional. To believe that an increased heart rate is bad for you, than you must also agree that any form of exercise that raises your heart rate from it's resting rate, is dangerous and should be avoided. If something is bad, it can not be considered good as well.

Finally, your heart rate, is your hearts response, to the request of your nervous system, to deliver oxygen throughout the body, in the form of blood circulation. This regulation of blood flow, is controlled by your brain, and your brain can be influenced to demand more blood flow, for a plethora of different reasons. Exercise, stress, excitement, fear, anxiety, or drug use, prescribed, or not, all play a factor on your bodies heart rate. The only things that should ever concern you regarding your heart rate, would be if your heart rate is irregular, due to a defect in your heart, or if your heart is not getting enough blood due to a blockage in your arteries.

If your heart has no defects and your arteries have no calcification/blockages, than your heart rate can be as high as you want it to be, all day every day with no negative side effects to your health.
I am going to agree with you on many points and completely agree that increasing the heart rate in and of itself shouldn't potentiate any danger. However, the fact that my HR increased substantially without any drastic changes in medication, training, lifestyle, or diet has me a bit perplexed. I'd rather know that everything is in the clear (by getting that echo done) and then go from there. Something is causing it and I'd like to get to the root of the cause. If it's just anxiety, that is in the works of getting fixed. I'm working with my doc and a psychologist (haven't had my 1st session yet) to combat this issue.

I appreciate your input as it truly does help put my mind at east. Thanks :)
 

MyNameIsJeff

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I will now and forever contest that your heart rate has nothing at all to do with your heart health. If increased heart rate is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health.

If you have no heart defects, or other cardiovascular problems, than an increased heart rate can not be considered any kind of legitimate health concern. Certain medications cause an increase in heart rate, but these medications are not considered dangerous to your heart. Just like exercise of any kind will cause an increase to your heart rate but have no negative side effects. No medical journals have ever attributed exercise with negative side effects to heart health, when the exercise was done in moderate to median proportion.

Saying heart rate is bad for the heart, with no heart defects or other medical problems, is flat out untrue and totally unsubstantiated by any medical professional. To believe that an increased heart rate is bad for you, than you must also agree that any form of exercise that raises your heart rate from it's resting rate, is dangerous and should be avoided. If something is bad, it can not be considered good as well.

Finally, your heart rate, is your hearts response, to the request of your nervous system, to deliver oxygen throughout the body, in the form of blood circulation. This regulation of blood flow, is controlled by your brain, and your brain can be influenced to demand more blood flow, for a plethora of different reasons. Exercise, stress, excitement, fear, anxiety, or drug use, prescribed, or not, all play a factor on your bodies heart rate. The only things that should ever concern you regarding your heart rate, would be if your heart rate is irregular, due to a defect in your heart, or if your heart is not getting enough blood due to a blockage in your arteries.

If your heart has no defects and your arteries have no calcification/blockages, than your heart rate can be as high as you want it to be, all day every day with no negative side effects to your health.
Your logic is flawed. It's like saying that "If hypertension is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health, since it leads to transient increases in blood pressure." Clearly that doesn't make sense, you have to distinguish between acute and chronic elevations in heart rate.

That being said, I would agree that a high heart rate is no bad in and of itself. The reason one should be concerned about a higher than normal heart rate is that there generally is an underlying pathology that leads to it. Particularly if the heart rate changes over short periods of time.

Note that "cardiac output equals the heart rate (HR), which is the number of heartbeats per minute, times the stroke volume (SV), which is the volume of blood pumped by the ventricles with each heartbeat."

An elevated heart rate in the absence of elevated oxygen needs and with normal cardiorespiratory fitness could mean that the stroke volume is low. A low stroke volume could be due to e.g. dilated cardiomyopathy as a resulted of uncompensating concentric left ventricular hypertrophy in AAS abusing bodybuilders. Or it could be due to other causes of damage to the heart muscle such as pathogen induced cardiomyopathy, mild heart attacks etc. Rapid changes in heart rate would be particularly indicative of such damage.

Holding constant the stroke volume, it could also be that heart rates are higher than normal due to insufficient cardiorespiratory fitness (I.e. ability of the circulatory and respiratory systems to supply oxygen). This is why endurance athletes tend to have very low resting heart rate. And low fitness is obviously associated with increased disease risk and should be identified and addressed.

Lastly, heart rates could be elevated due to neurohormonal overstimulation due to highly androgenic AAS, stimulants, hyperthyroidism, stress or other medications. So in this scenario also, the elevated heart rate is an indicator of an underlying problem and should be investigated.

So XstarchildX is smart to get a thorough check up by a cardiologist, as should everyone who has a higher than average heart rate and/or has seen significant changes in a short period of time.
 

XstarchildX

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Your logic is flawed. It's like saying that "If hypertension is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health, since it leads to transient increases in blood pressure." Clearly that doesn't make sense, you have to distinguish between acute and chronic elevations in heart rate.

That being said, I would agree that a high heart rate is no bad in and of itself. The reason one should be concerned about a higher than normal heart rate is that there generally is an underlying pathology that leads to it. Particularly if the heart rate changes over short periods of time.

Note that "cardiac output equals the heart rate (HR), which is the number of heartbeats per minute, times the stroke volume (SV), which is the volume of blood pumped by the ventricles with each heartbeat."

An elevated heart rate in the absence of elevated oxygen needs and with normal cardiorespiratory fitness could mean that the stroke volume is low. A low stroke volume could be due to e.g. dilated cardiomyopathy as a resulted of uncompensating concentric left ventricular hypertrophy in AAS abusing bodybuilders. Or it could be due to other causes of damage to the heart muscle such as pathogen induced cardiomyopathy, mild heart attacks etc. Rapid changes in heart rate would be particularly indicative of such damage.

Holding constant the stroke volume, it could also be that heart rates are higher than normal due to insufficient cardiorespiratory fitness (I.e. ability of the circulatory and respiratory systems to supply oxygen). This is why endurance athletes tend to have very low resting heart rate. And low fitness is obviously associated with increased disease risk and should be identified and addressed.

Lastly, heart rates could be elevated due to neurohormonal overstimulation due to highly androgenic AAS, stimulants, hyperthyroidism, stress or other medications. So in this scenario also, the elevated heart rate is an indicator of an underlying problem and should be investigated.

So XstarchildX is smart to get a thorough check up by a cardiologist, as should everyone who has a higher than average heart rate and/or has seen significant changes in a short period of time.
I like the analogy of the increased blood pressure. We all know blood pressure increases greatly during physical exertion, which is a normal response to weight baring exercises. On the flip side, constant elevations in blood pressure for a prolonged period of time has detrimental effects on one's health. So I appreciate this analogy as it clears things up quite a bit.

I'm truly hoping the cause is stress and anxiety related. It is also important to note that I am iron deficient without anemia. I used to have both, but the anemia was corrected with ferrous sulfate supplementation, but after another couple phlebotomies to get the hematocrit and hemoglobin back in range, I was left with depleted iron and ferritin stores. Could this be playing a role in the elevated HR? Who knows. I'm done playing guessing games, and having it investigated is in my best interest. Until we know what's going on, I'll be on TRT only (otherwise my T will be sub 120 like it was many years ago before I got on TRT).

Thanks again for your input!
 

maldorf

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I will now and forever contest that your heart rate has nothing at all to do with your heart health. If increased heart rate is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health.

If you have no heart defects, or other cardiovascular problems, than an increased heart rate can not be considered any kind of legitimate health concern. Certain medications cause an increase in heart rate, but these medications are not considered dangerous to your heart. Just like exercise of any kind will cause an increase to your heart rate but have no negative side effects. No medical journals have ever attributed exercise with negative side effects to heart health, when the exercise was done in moderate to median proportion.

Saying heart rate is bad for the heart, with no heart defects or other medical problems, is flat out untrue and totally unsubstantiated by any medical professional. To believe that an increased heart rate is bad for you, than you must also agree that any form of exercise that raises your heart rate from it's resting rate, is dangerous and should be avoided. If something is bad, it can not be considered good as well.

Finally, your heart rate, is your hearts response, to the request of your nervous system, to deliver oxygen throughout the body, in the form of blood circulation. This regulation of blood flow, is controlled by your brain, and your brain can be influenced to demand more blood flow, for a plethora of different reasons. Exercise, stress, excitement, fear, anxiety, or drug use, prescribed, or not, all play a factor on your bodies heart rate. The only things that should ever concern you regarding your heart rate, would be if your heart rate is irregular, due to a defect in your heart, or if your heart is not getting enough blood due to a blockage in your arteries.

If your heart has no defects and your arteries have no calcification/blockages, than your heart rate can be as high as you want it to be, all day every day with no negative side effects to your health.

Having a high resting heart rate means that your heart is inefficient , has a lower than normal stroke volume. This could be from multiple factors, but one cause would be low ejection fraction. Another could be a leaky valve that allows blood to go back up into the left atrium. Another cause could be hormonal problems, but a resting heart rate of 90 indicates some kind of health problem. If someone is really badly out of shape I don't think it would even get that high, I could be wrong.
 

nothuman

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I will now and forever contest that your heart rate has nothing at all to do with your heart health. If increased heart rate is bad for your health or negative to you in anyway, than that means all exercise or stimulation is bad for your health.

If you have no heart defects, or other cardiovascular problems, than an increased heart rate can not be considered any kind of legitimate health concern. Certain medications cause an increase in heart rate, but these medications are not considered dangerous to your heart. Just like exercise of any kind will cause an increase to your heart rate but have no negative side effects. No medical journals have ever attributed exercise with negative side effects to heart health, when the exercise was done in moderate to median proportion.

Saying heart rate is bad for the heart, with no heart defects or other medical problems, is flat out untrue and totally unsubstantiated by any medical professional. To believe that an increased heart rate is bad for you, than you must also agree that any form of exercise that raises your heart rate from it's resting rate, is dangerous and should be avoided. If something is bad, it can not be considered good as well.

Finally, your heart rate, is your hearts response, to the request of your nervous system, to deliver oxygen throughout the body, in the form of blood circulation. This regulation of blood flow, is controlled by your brain, and your brain can be influenced to demand more blood flow, for a plethora of different reasons. Exercise, stress, excitement, fear, anxiety, or drug use, prescribed, or not, all play a factor on your bodies heart rate. The only things that should ever concern you regarding your heart rate, would be if your heart rate is irregular, due to a defect in your heart, or if your heart is not getting enough blood due to a blockage in your arteries.

If your heart has no defects and your arteries have no calcification/blockages, than your heart rate can be as high as you want it to be, all day every day with no negative side effects to your health.

I am sorry but this is one of the least informed posts I have ever read. It sounds to me like you came up with a theory and you are now stating it as truth, when the reality is this couldn't be any more less accurate.
 

Stewie

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XstarchildX

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Thanks for all the input and help, guys. That's why I love this forum!

Quick update: Resting HR in the morning is around 60bpm and anywhere between 72-76 during the day now (just took it STANDING and it was 78bpm).

I made a few changes: down to around 160mg test a week split into 3 shots. I've also added 20 minutes of cardio every day. On days I lift I've been hitting it hard right after lifting. It's not casual cardio and I challenge myself. It's more of MISS than anything. I've also upped my cardiotone to twice a day. I made that adjustment yesterday, so too soon to see if it's going to be of any benefit.

Overall, feeling a bit better. Still getting the echo done as I feel this will be very valuable information. Then I'll go from there.
 

maldorf

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Thanks for all the input and help, guys. That's why I love this forum!

Quick update: Resting HR in the morning is around 60bpm and anywhere between 72-76 during the day now (just took it STANDING and it was 78bpm).

I made a few changes: down to around 160mg test a week split into 3 shots. I've also added 20 minutes of cardio every day. On days I lift I've been hitting it hard right after lifting. It's not casual cardio and I challenge myself. It's more of MISS than anything. I've also upped my cardiotone to twice a day. I made that adjustment yesterday, so too soon to see if it's going to be of any benefit.

Overall, feeling a bit better. Still getting the echo done as I feel this will be very valuable information. Then I'll go from there.

Congrats, that is a decent rate. Im glad you are carrying through with the echo. I hope it comes back normal, it sounds like it should. You can rest easy for awhile if it does and just keep things very sane with your usage. Cardio is good!
 

XstarchildX

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Congrats, that is a decent rate. Im glad you are carrying through with the echo. I hope it comes back normal, it sounds like it should. You can rest easy for awhile if it does and just keep things very sane with your usage. Cardio is good!
Absolutely. Situations like this make you second guess everything you're currently doing, and the things you've done in your past. I've been pretty sane with my dosages so far, but did run my highest blast at the start of 2018. It wasn't anything too crazy, but about a gram of test plus a couple other compounds was definitely more than I've ever run previously. I'm not going to be the next Mr. O, so no need to push the envelope :).
 

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