HERES A POST BY TITUS THAT I CANT FIGURE OUT.

[Vander_V]

C.Titus wrote

"I agree with many of you who have been saying that my conditioning from my video is the best I've ever acheived. That conditioning is exactly what Chad and I are working on for the GNC Pro Show. My current weight in the AM is 235 lbs. Just 4 pounds more than when I won the USA in 1996. You do the math; 7 more years of muscle and condtioning peeled down to 235 lb. I will try and take some photos tomorrow while training and send them to Chad."


Im way confused here ??? is he saying he only gained a few lbs in 7 years ? i must be reading this wrong carbs are low

 

[MR.BICEPS]

Ive had my carbs and still dont understand it? lol

Titus gets pretty darn cocky at times but he obviusly knows his stuff. I like his bicep veins. They look awesome...

 

[Jonnyel]

How long was Titus in jail after winning the USA's?

 

[LATS]

WELL, THE 1996 TITUS IS GOING TO GET SMOKED AT A PRO SHOW OF ANY CALIBER.. he may have had great conditioning in 1996 but, he will get lost in the crowd on the pro stage.. he was doing about as good as titus can do given his genetics on the pro level.. he was not looking bad at 245 pounds.. but, to come down to that weight or just a little above and trying to compare conditioning and shape with the likes of dexter and darrem is going to go badly.. i would much rather see him at a bigger weight.. but, i guess it all depends on who shows up at the show..

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I agree with Lats. You cant play other peoples games. Its great to get in the best condition you possibly can, but Titus needs to be big. With his genetics if hes not, he has no chance. Just like Cutler winning the Arnold (bullshit) he tried to come down in weight and come in tighter. No way in F'n hell did he beat Cormier or Dexter that day. At his normal size and good conditioning maybe, but not that day the way he looked. Thats just not his game, its MASS. Also carrying less mass will kill him symmetry with genetic structure, being more massive actualy makes him more symmetrical and aesthetic.

I THINK titus is trying to say hes more matured and quality muscle in a much more peeled and drier condition.

 

[GettingBigger]

In all honesty i truly believe that Craig looked his best at that USA. So whats happened since then is uknown to me. Why he can't match that conditioning without having added a good 15 - 20 lb (in 8 years) i don't know.

 

[wyldeone]

BULLSHIT!

I know Craig and I know what he is trying to say. Basically he is saying that althoe he has alot more muscle-maturity and density he is going to suck some lean to be ultra-shredded and bone-dry. Trust me gang he will surprise you all if he can come in like that and no it will help his symetry as he will tighten his midsection and not appear so blocky. Craig is an asthetic bodybuilder and got caught up in the size game he is much better at a lighter weight and the placings will show that as Chad will carb him back up properly as he has his new carb load dialed in to the tee and Titus will look like he is 245lbs! you guys all think Vander is 240-245lbs as well but guess what he isn't he has a small joint structure and a small waste with wide shoulders and wise lats its all optical illusion my friends and you can mark my words now if Titus can display the same type of symetrical balance he had at USA's in 96 he will look awesome and if he comes in on target and gets smoked then I will eat my words LATS. I think the major issue will be the mid-section if he can tighten that up and control his breathing he will do VERY well. Trust me there is a reason Titus and Chad decided to go this route as the Judges have turned to the asthetic look and you will start seeing it more and more. No more size game's here with the exception of he mass monsters you will see everyone down-sizing both at the national level and the pro level. wyldeone.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

hope Wylde is right. The asthetic look is much more pleasing to the general public as well as most bodybuilders. Who wants a guy who can slam on mass but isnt symmetrical and beats somebody with better structure, just as much maturity and development, and in better condition. Thats just not right. Its about who looks the best, not whose the biggest.

 

[LATS]

well, it really depends on who you talk to.. to see pros trimming down their size will lose crowd attendence.. the general public is not going to buy tickets to olympia.. the "muscleheads" will buy the tickets ect.. talking to a magazine editor recently confirms what i said.. he stated that pecker and the whole new weider gang is once again thinking they can make bodybuilding main stream.. complete b.s... look.. we are involved in a cult sport.. the general public does not understand us.. never will... weider tried it.. wbf and mcmahon tried it.. all for nothing.. ronnie won the olympia at 286 pounds.. jay cutler is quoted as saying that he will come in at at least 270 pounds.. dennis james will be bigger than ever.. the list goes on.. people want freaks.. whether one likes it or not.. that being said.. i hope you are right about titus.. but, lets face it.. it all comes down to who shows up.. put him on stage with jay, ronnie, james, ect.. he will get lost.. the trend that some hope for does not seem to be reality in regards to the editors i talk to.. even they admit that if pecker tries to take the sport in that direction, he will fail.. do we really want to see darrem as the pinnacle of our chosen sport?? so what do we tell the guys now?? eat less, train not as hard ect to reduce your size?? the next year will be interesting to say the least..

 

[TooPowerful4u]

First of all you cant take nothin away from Darrem Charles. He has an awesome asthetic physique with great shape and hes an awesome performer. Hes also from what i hear just a great guy.

No i dont think that pro's should train lighter or eat less, they just need to keep it in a healthy and asthetic range. Ronnie Coleman still has great asthetics at 280lbs, thats why hes the champ, hes huge with great shape and a solid taper, great quad sweep, etc. . . I think there is a point where pro's start taking too much to get huge, then u get the GH gut and unnatural shapes of muscles and lumps from over synthol use. Some use is ok, when u overdo it and get those effects just to be HUGE and match size with other pro's then u took it too far. Someone like Art Atwood, i dont really wanna knock him he is pro and im sure he worked his ass off for it. . . Hes absolutly ENORMOUS(sp) and always conditioned very well, BUT he has no asthetics or shape to him. Does he place well just becuase hes huge and ripped? Just dont agree with that.

 

[Vander_V]

well, it really depends on who you talk to.. to see pros trimming down their size will lose crowd attendence.. the general public is not going to buy tickets to olympia.. the "muscleheads" will buy the tickets ect.. talking to a magazine editor recently confirms what i said.. he stated that pecker and the whole new weider gang is once again thinking they can make bodybuilding main stream.. complete b.s... look.. we are involved in a cult sport.. the general public does not understand us.. never will... weider tried it.. wbf and mcmahon tried it.. all for nothing.. ronnie won the olympia at 286 pounds.. jay cutler is quoted as saying that he will come in at at least 270 pounds.. dennis james will be bigger than ever.. the list goes on.. people want freaks.. whether one likes it or not.. that being said.. i hope you are right about titus.. but, lets face it.. it all comes down to who shows up.. put him on stage with jay, ronnie, james, ect.. he will get lost.. the trend that some hope for does not seem to be reality in regards to the editors i talk to.. even they admit that if pecker tries to take the sport in that direction, he will fail.. do we really want to see darrem as the pinnacle of our chosen sport?? so what do we tell the guys now?? eat less, train not as hard ect to reduce your size?? the next year will be interesting to say the least..

People wanted freaks , now i believe they are more so becomming un amused and somewhat disgusted with the builds of today, sure your gonna get some 20 yr old kid who is a fan and likes to see monsters , but us as bodybuilders relate to what looks the best and what is eye pleasing thats why we will never get over the bodybuilders of the past, Reeves , Scott, Zane , Arnold , Haney , Mentzer , ect, WHY ARE WE STILL AMAZED WITH THERE LOOK ?ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION? AND THEN THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MINUTE WHILE LOOKING AT A TWISTING BACK DOUBLE BICEP POSE BY ARNOLD? SHIT ART ATWOOD IS TWICE THERE SIZE? WHY DO WE STILL LOOK AT THEM IN AWE, Ill tell ya why and how because its ART yes ART there bodys were something to stare at for more then a minute , like you do with a painting of true art, try painting a picture of Marcus Ruhl you think that picture will stand the test of time? hell NO , but i look at some pictures of Arnold and Mentzer for example and just stare , theres some sort of perfection to them some sort of natural beauty still there like a sculpture ,,,, I also believe from talking a while ago with a friend of mine whos in the industry,, that this industry is going to change and instead of being judged on a freak show they will be judged as an art show of perfection .

just my thoughts.

 

[wyldeone]

I agree and disagree!

Lats,
While I agree with you to some extent in the respect that yes people want to see freaks. Hell I love asthetic bodybuilders with flowing lines and tight midsections but I always anticipate Ronnie,Jay, and D.J. but there is a place for everyone thsoe guys liek Ruhl are mass-monsters and there will always be those but when you have guys like Flex Wheeler fuck himself up trying to come in bigger to play the size game he looked worse and the same holds true with alot of the smaller bodybuilders and Titus is one of them. How many mans boo when Dexter or Darrem(who I'm not a fan of myself) win a pro show. when Lee P. can into the ironman at 198lbs the lightest he's ever been he was finally rewarded with a win! look at the long list of newcomers placing very high in their respective pro shows Like Henry and Dim. Don't you think there is a reason that Weider signed Richard Jones and now Mark Dugdale? its because regardless weider still owns this sport and he is hand-picking his champions and it is very clear the direction that this sport is heading. Liek it or not NO ONE wants to see Synthol abuse and extreme growth guts anymore. I personally would favor lighter usage as would 99% of the pro's as they are getting scared due to the extreme dosages just to keep up and the vast majority of them would favor a downsizing to preserve their health after bodybuilding. I don't think it would hurt the sport in the least and it would infact come back more mainstream weather we want that or not. Personally i like the cult-status of the sport but I also believe that enough is enough. When I have guys in the amatuers coming to me telling me what they are yaking it blows my mind and these guys are state level at best. is it their fault? NO they are watching their hero's take massive amounts of everything under the sun and follow suit.
I feel the public image of bodybuilding and the overall marketability of bodybuilding as a whole would benefit as it would offer more oppurtunities and a better living for these guys as the general musclehead and sports enthusiest would percieve the look as more attainable. Tell me this would you rather have Mark Dugdale selling your products or Markus Ruhl? the freaks would buy it from Markus but EVERYONE would buy the same product from Mark Dugdale. Mark my words brother you will infact see the changing of the guard as it has already started. wyldeone.

 

[LATS]

the post was not directed at you toopowerful..i was basically thinking out loud lol.. anyway,, here is what i think.. darrem may be a good guy.. i could care less.. some of the pros are good guys.. some are shit.. but, darrem is not the idea pinnacle of the sport.. who is?? well obviously ronnie.. they gave him the title as mr olympia.. many times.. he is huge.. has a little gut.. but, does have great muscle shape.. the sport should be based on who is the biggest man, with the best shape to their muscle with awesome conditioning.. darrem has great conditioning, good muscle shape, but is not a big guy what so ever.. the elite of any sport should be the one who is/has the best genetics and has done the most with them.. you can not award genetically lower athletes// here is what i mean.. we have people on some boards saying that the guys are getting too big.. they are getting too freaky..we need to tone it down a bit so that the public will accept us ect ect.. #1 the public is not going to except us..period.. they do not understand us.. never will.. even a guy like darrem is considered a steriod abusing freak to the general public.. they aint buying tickets anytime soon..#2 to tell the athletes to take it down a notch is ridiculous.. they are the genetic elite of our sport.. it is like telling judges to award a slower sprinter because he has a prettier stride..if he is not the genetically superior athlete on that day..too bad. the genetic elite can not told to take it down to make themselves more "acceptable".. #3 the average person will never be able to reach the athletic talent of the genetically superior.. this is the only "sport" where i have actually heard people say "it is about time they award the smaller guys" wtf.. why?? the smaller guys are for the most part the "lower" part of the genetic food chain..this game is all about genetics.. why do we have to award the smaller guys?? on chads board the other day a guy actually said that it made him feel better that they might award the smaller guys better placing because it would bode well for him at future shows..wtf.. once again it is like saying to someone that they need to give the slower sprinters awards too.. the guys are slower or less developed because they do not have the genetics that the elite do.. now, i agree with toopowerful that art is a bad example.. he is huge but, lacks shape.. but, lets look at the photos again.. art was huge.. art was rock hard.. art may not have had the best shape to his muscle but, he did have the other requirements.. now compare that to darrem.. darrem's condition was equal to arts.. he had great muscle shape.. but, he lacked size.. a diffinte requirement.. if ronnie is the pinnacle of the sport sporting massive size then how does darrem beat art?? the judging is very unfair to say the least right now.. award those who are superior... darrem and haidar are good bodybuilders.. good shape..good conditioning but, sorely lack in size.. this is bodybuilding.. if your genes do not allow for size.. then that is the card the good lord gave ya.. trust me.. phil h and i have talked about this fairly recent.. being a pro and being on that stage he knows what is right and what is wrong.. to award smaller guys over guys who have great conditioning and size is very inconsistant.. even he did not know how darrem beat art.. the sport is big enough for all types of physiques... smaller guys and the freaks.. but, if the guys do not meet the criteria than they do not win.. one one of those criteria is size.. i do agree that the athlete must also pocess shape and conditioning..ronnie has that.. cutler has that.. dennis james has that, preist has that, marcus ruhl has that, cormier has that.. ect.. now, if darrem adds 15 pounds or so, than he will will have.. same for haidar.. to award guys not in that development league is ridiculous.. the mags asked the question as to whether the trend is more shape now that darrem and haidar because of the recent contest placing of these two in a particular show.. that is not a good example.. why?? it was a low level show.. no offense to the athletes but, ronnie wasnt there neither was ruhl, cormier, james ect.. now that being said, i belive that if victor martinez comes in around 260 pounds and retains shape of his muscles.. he is a shoe in for most shows he enters.. preist was recently quoted that he was adding more size to be more freaky.. why?? because that is what sells.. if pecker and the ami gang do not see that then they will lose their ass.. if people want a more symmetrical physique to look at .. then there is always the musclemania shows and others who have a abundance of those physiques.. like i said, there is enough federations and bodybuilders to satisfy everone..but, the ifbb should be the largest, biggest, best conditioned athletes.. the pinnacle.. and that pinnacle is ronnie.. wylde.. i do not disagree with what you are saying but, where we disagree is that you belive that the downsizing will make it more marketable.. i do not belive that it will ever be markerable.. would i rather have ruhl or mark endorse my produsts?? well, if i am a bodybuilding supplement company and knowing that freaks sell, i would chose ruhl anyday.. do i belive that mark is going to make me more money with the general public?? no.. that is not my market and there is no way you can get around that.. my market would be the hard core fans.. my dad used to sat "you can polish a turd all day long.. but at the end of the day you still have a turd.. no amount of polishing will change that" i agree that the guts need to go.. but, i do not see it happeneing.. and if it does i see it ending tha same way that the wbf and weider ended.. they both failed at going mainstream and that was when the guys were smaller and without guts.. if it did not work then.. why would it work now..??

 

[FH]

People wanted freaks , now i believe they are more so becomming un amused and somewhat disgusted with the builds of today, sure your gonna get some 20 yr old kid who is a fan and likes to see monsters , but us as bodybuilders relate to what looks the best and what is eye pleasing thats why we will never get over the bodybuilders of the past, Reeves , Scott, Zane , Arnold , Haney , Mentzer , ect, WHY ARE WE STILL AMAZED WITH THERE LOOK ?ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION? AND THEN THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MINUTE WHILE LOOKING AT A TWISTING BACK DOUBLE BICEP POSE BY ARNOLD? SHIT ART ATWOOD IS TWICE THERE SIZE? WHY DO WE STILL LOOK AT THEM IN AWE, Ill tell ya why and how because its ART yes ART there bodys were something to stare at for more then a minute , like you do with a painting of true art, try painting a picture of Marcus Ruhl you think that picture will stand the test of time? hell NO , but i look at some pictures of Arnold and Mentzer for example and just stare , theres some sort of perfection to them some sort of natural beauty still there like a sculpture ,,,, I also believe from talking a while ago with a friend of mine whos in the industry,, that this industry is going to change and instead of being judged on a freak show they will be judged as an art show of perfection .

just my thoughts.

Vander, I agree they're great..but why do us older guys think that?

I'm inclined to think the guys from back then won our attention as they were "our" first exposure to the sport. Yes we older guys repect the old timmers for that reason. The new young kids will look at someone like ronnie and that will be their exposure...then ronnie will be their mental image of whats "proper" in the sport. Look at other sports, I couldn't give a rip about the old timmers in football or hockey that were big before my time. But the guys that were apart of our ara or shortly after we'd love them. It was the guys that first caught my attention when I first became interested in a particular sport...What ever the sport that earned my respect.

Now this can work to the advantage of the non-massmonsters, over time if again the exposure is timed right for those new kids that have yet to take interest...perhaps? Lats's outlook tends to be the ways things have sold despite all the people that say "I don't want to get that big". I would hope the marketing groups have done their homework. There are more people out there that would rather not get that big....So why do the big guys sell the products to the people that don;t want to be big ????

FH

 

[Vander_V]

the post was not directed at you toopowerful..i was basically thinking out loud lol.. anyway,, here is what i think.. darrem may be a good guy.. i could care less.. some of the pros are good guys.. some are shit.. but, darrem is not the idea pinnacle of the sport.. who is?? well obviously ronnie.. they gave him the title as mr olympia.. many times.. he is huge.. has a little gut.. but, does have great muscle shape.. the sport should be based on who is the biggest man, with the best shape to their muscle with awesome conditioning.. darrem has great conditioning, good muscle shape, but is not a big guy what so ever.. the elite of any sport should be the one who is/has the best genetics and has done the most with them.. you can not award genetically lower athletes// here is what i mean.. we have people on some boards saying that the guys are getting too big.. they are getting too freaky..we need to tone it down a bit so that the public will accept us ect ect.. #1 the public is not going to except us..period.. they do not understand us.. never will.. even a guy like darrem is considered a steriod abusing freak to the general public.. they aint buying tickets anytime soon..#2 to tell the athletes to take it down a notch is ridiculous.. they are the genetic elite of our sport.. it is like telling judges to award a slower sprinter because he has a prettier stride..if he is not the genetically superior athlete on that day..too bad. the genetic elite can not told to take it down to make themselves more "acceptable".. #3 the average person will never be able to reach the athletic talent of the genetically superior.. this is the only "sport" where i have actually heard people say "it is about time they award the smaller guys" wtf.. why?? the smaller guys are for the most part the "lower" part of the genetic food chain..this game is all about genetics.. why do we have to award the smaller guys?? on chads board the other day a guy actually said that it made him feel better that they might award the smaller guys better placing because it would bode well for him at future shows..wtf.. once again it is like saying to someone that they need to give the slower sprinters awards too.. the guys are slower or less developed because they do not have the genetics that the elite do.. now, i agree with toopowerful that art is a bad example.. he is huge but, lacks shape.. but, lets look at the photos again.. art was huge.. art was rock hard.. art may not have had the best shape to his muscle but, he did have the other requirements.. now compare that to darrem.. darrem's condition was equal to arts.. he had great muscle shape.. but, he lacked size.. a diffinte requirement.. if ronnie is the pinnacle of the sport sporting massive size then how does darrem beat art?? the judging is very unfair to say the least right now.. award those who are superior... darrem and haidar are good bodybuilders.. good shape..good conditioning but, sorely lack in size.. this is bodybuilding.. if your genes do not allow for size.. then that is the card the good lord gave ya.. trust me.. phil h and i have talked about this fairly recent.. being a pro and being on that stage he knows what is right and what is wrong.. to award smaller guys over guys who have great conditioning and size is very inconsistant.. even he did not know how darrem beat art.. the sport is big enough for all types of physiques... smaller guys and the freaks.. but, if the guys do not meet the criteria than they do not win.. one one of those criteria is size.. i do agree that the athlete must also pocess shape and conditioning..ronnie has that.. cutler has that.. dennis james has that, preist has that, marcus ruhl has that, cormier has that.. ect.. now, if darrem adds 15 pounds or so, than he will will have.. same for haidar.. to award guys not in that development league is ridiculous.. the mags asked the question as to whether the trend is more shape now that darrem and haidar because of the recent contest placing of these two in a particular show.. that is not a good example.. why?? it was a low level show.. no offense to the athletes but, ronnie wasnt there neither was ruhl, cormier, james ect.. now that being said, i belive that if victor martinez comes in around 260 pounds and retains shape of his muscles.. he is a shoe in for most shows he enters.. preist was recently quoted that he was adding more size to be more freaky.. why?? because that is what sells.. if pecker and the ami gang do not see that then they will lose their ass.. if people want a more symmetrical physique to look at .. then there is always the musclemania shows and others who have a abundance of those physiques.. like i said, there is enough federations and bodybuilders to satisfy everone..but, the ifbb should be the largest, biggest, best conditioned athletes.. the pinnacle.. and that pinnacle is ronnie..

Ronnie has been the pinnacle of the sport BUT now they cant wait ot get rid of that , times change my friend and so do stlyes and looks as well as body structure.

whos to say what this sport should be judged on??? No one can make that assumption , its up to 2005 and whatever the future brings NOT US or what we like , or what big freaks we think are cool , those parachute work out pants for example i still see people wearing those fucking pathetic things LOL they were excepted at one point and now a complete joke ahahaha and have been almost extinct , same things as what is about to happen to the industry TIMES CHANGE AND SO DO WE.

 

[Vander_V]

Vander, I agree they're great..but why do us older guys think that?

I'm inclined to think the guys from back then won our attention as they were "our" first exposure to the sport. Yes we older guys repect the old timmers for that reason. The new young kids will look at someone like ronnie and that will be their exposure...then ronnie will be their mental image of whats "proper" in the sport. Look at other sports, I couldn't give a rip about the old timmers in football or hockey that were big before my time. But the guys that were apart of that ara or shortly after love them. It was the guys that first caught my attention when I first became interested in a particular sport...What ever the sport that earned my respect.

Now this can work to the advantage of the non-massmonsters, over time if again the exposure is timed right for those new kids that have yet to take interest.

FH

Then let me ask you this , why am i still amazed???

i will never cheer someone on who is a walking health hazard sorry man but thats just a sad way to live , you gotta draw the line so the industry has drawn that line not in stone but in sand , they can change it whenever they want , it simply relys on the future of the sport.

 

[LATS]

i do not disagree vander but what i said about it ever being mainstream still holds.. when the wbf tried to get it to go mainstream the athletes were much smaller.. no guts ect.. but, it failed.. weider tried also when the athletes were more streamlined and smaller.. what happened?? it failed.. we will never be mainstream.. hell, i see people pointing at guys half the size we are used to and saying he is abusing steroids.. the general public is not going to accept us.. unfortuanately now you have idiots in offices who do not even work out making policy decisions on our sport.. they do not understand that we are a cult sport.. always will be..

 

[FH]

I don't disagree, I think we will always be amazed for the reasons I stated.

 

[wyldeone]

good debate!

LATS,
I value your opinion and yes we disagree so we will have to see how it pans out. Ronnie is a pefect blend but what I am trying to say is that alot of the athletes that are trying to play the size game with Ronnie will never be anywhere close and therefore they hurt their placing coming in heavier as they loose what got them to that point. I also know for a fact that Dugdale would outsell Ruhl supplement-wise 3-1 because the fitness/figure girls would buy it the general gymrats as well as other bodybuilders. Ask the other pro's wha tthey think of Richard Jones and Mark Dugdale. I thin Chris Cormier is the perfect mix of size and asthetics as is Victor Martinez but the rest of these guys still trying to play the game NO WAY! they are hurting their marketablity and placings. Perfect example look at womens bodybuilding. When Kim quit womens bodybuilding died with it. I remember when everyone said hte new figure class would not attract attention and guess what it EXPLODED half the people watching are mainstream people that work out and can appreciate the healthy fitness look. I persoanlly LOVE women BODYBUILDERS But I am the minority even amonst us hardcores and I am even starting to realize that the women have gone way to far! wyldeone.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

THIS BRINGS ME BACK TO THE QUESTION I ASKED ON THE THREAD WITH PHILS PIC!

I LIKE FREAKY SIZE AND CONDITION.....THOSE GUYS SHOULD WIN. I DO NOT LIKE THE BIG DISTENDED GUT THAT HAS COME WITH THE EXTRA 10-15LBS OF BODYWEIGHT HOWEVER. LOOKING AT PHILS PIC....THERE'S A BIG BASTARD....WITHOUT THE BIG, PREGNANT ABDOMEN IN 1993. MY QUESTION....WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW??? WYLDE? LATS? PHIL? BIGA? I AM GUESSING IT'S THE INSULIN. GUYS WERE USING GH AND STEROIDS FOR YEARS AND STILL MAINTAINED A GOOD LOOK. SO......? <FORGIVE MY IGNORNANCE.......I AM OUT IN THE BOONIES. THE ONLY PROS I INTERACT WITH ARE HERE.