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High AST and ALT liver enzymes.

Feeshoils

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Hey guys, bit of a long winded post so bear with me, Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, so mods delete or move if needed.


Recently came off a cycle, 8 weeks ago, of test, tren and masteron. Cycle duration was 6 weeks.
I Had a blood test during the last week of cycle, as to be expected, it was noted that my AST and ALT liver enzymes were elevated which i expected due to exercise, protein consumption and the wonderful effects that those anabolics have on our system.

The doctor wasn't too concerned about the elevated levels of liver enzymes, however she suggested i come off everything, which i have done, and get another test to see how/ if it all levels out.

My Liver enzymes during last week of cycle were:
Ast 59 u/l suitable range= <45 u/l
Alt 61 u/l suitable range=<40 u/l

6 weeks later i came back to have another blood test to see where my levels were at, being young to bodybuilding, 23 Y/o, i want to keep health in mind and be able to lift and function without being riddled with health issues when I'm older (contradicting myself saying i'm keeping health in mind whilst taking juice i know).

So i came back for another blood test 6 weeks after i came off. Blood test was testing liver, kidneys, test levels etc etc..
And to see the results, all aspects were good but i was slightly confused, my liver enzymes had actually increased once again since stopping gear all together.

Results came back as.
Ast= 72 u/l suitable range = 45 u/l
Ast= 75 u/l suitable range = 40 u/l.

Should the elevated liver enzymes be a cause for concern?

I've continued training as usual since i came off,5-6 days per week trying to take additional rest days where possible to let the body recover, kept up with cardio 3-5 times (Moderate intensity steady state, also some hiit) per week, kept protein intake high 250-300g daily(too much possibly?), tried to limit preservatives and have a clean diet, mainly fats and protein.

I dont drink, dont smoke and havent taken any anabolics since coming off.

The supplements i take daily are:
Liv52 (started recently since liver enzymes were elevated on first test)
fish oil, zinc, magnesium, vitamin d,
Nootropics on occasions such as piracetam, alpha gpc, aniracetam, sulbtamine and occasionally modafinil/armodafinil (full time student)
Amino acids and protein powder.

I was taking Tamoxifen @40mg per day for the first 2 weeks of pct and then 20mg the next 3 weeks after that up until the blood test. I know in some individuals, tamox it can raise enzyme levels to a degree but not quite like the levels i've got.

I had the first initial blood test after not training for 36 hours, and the second blood test after having trained just 12 hours previous (didnt know she wanted to have a blood test that day otherwise i wouldn't have trained the night previous).

I'm just after some advice to see weather or not the elevated enzymes should be a cause for concern and what i can do to fix it.

What could be the cause for the elevated enzymes? Am i overlooking simple things such as too much protein in my diet or not allowing long enough recovery between sessions?

Im keen to learn and always open to feedback and suggestions.:headbang:
 

deerslayer41

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It's the training close to your test. Take a week off before the next Panell. Mine are always slightly elevated and my doc is never concerned.
 

asteelz

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As mentioned above , heavy training elevates these enzymes. And yes they show high on the blood test but frankly those numbers are not bad
 

Feeshoils

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Thanks for the help guys, a big weight off my mind and confirming what i initially thought, nothing to worry about then in that case:headbang:
 

buck1973

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here is a common study that I think most refer to......
Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men

Everytime I hear this that xercise can cause elevated ast/alt levels I wanna call bullshit...
I have never xperiences what the test has shown....
I have trained my entire life... and I have many many blood records that can show that Most of the time Off gear My ast/alt levels are weell within normal limits...
If you view the study. these levels will remain elevated 7-10 days post xercise ( weight training)
Now I train 5 days P/W so my levels should always be out of range...
However this study was done on ; "Fifteen healthy men, used to moderate physical activity not including weightlifting, performed an 1 h long weightlifting programme"

Liver function tests are significantly increased for at least 7 days after weightlifting among men used to moderate physical activity, but not used to performing weightlifting on a regular basis.



THIS IS NOT ME
Now if you fit this criteria than I think you are GTG and fit into this study and found yr answer. but if you wieght train regularly than you do not match the people in this study..
I dont think that a few points over limits is a big deal but I do think you have the wrong reason that they are over limit.....
I suggest read the study in its entirety and make your own judgement.

In this study, it has been shown that weightlifting resulted in profound increases in the liver function parameters, AST and ALT, as well as in LD, CK and myoglobin levels. Furthermore, we have been able to show that this effect was prolonged and that most subjects still had increased enzyme concentrations 1 week after performing the weightlifting programme. The duration of increased markers for muscle damage (myoglobin, CK, AST, ALT and LD) was in line with a recent study using strenuous one-arm exercise, in which all markers of muscle damage were significantly increased for up to 10 days after exercise [14]. There was, however, considerable variability in the extent of response to the heavy muscular exercise. One possible explanation for this could be that the subjects were used to varying amounts of physical activity in daily life. Other factors, e.g. ethnicity and diet, could also have contributed to this variability.
So its possible that the more you are used to strenuous xcercise or the more well train you are the less AST/ALT levels are effected....
That has been My xperience....


Peace
 
Last edited:

Zarati

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Liv52 is a waste of money compared to what's available out there. Take Tudca and NAC.
1gram of Tudca, 1.8gram of NAC
 

XstarchildX

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Mine are almost always elevated and it's due to weight training. If you take a few days off and go again, I bet they'll be in range.
 

maldorf

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I had high levels after training too. Once did some heavy squats a couple of days before the test and the levels were really high. My dang doctor wanted to do an ultra sound right away. I did some quick research and found that the enzyme GGT is supposed to not elevate from skeletal muscle breakdown from lifting. Have them test GGT.
 
Last edited:

Ruhlfreak55

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My doctor was apparently unaware of this, and tagged mine as high, I was in a situation where the only times I was over 24 hours without lifting were on work days where I work long enough that they're not there when I'm done to draw. So I had 2 or 3 tests with them pretty high and on nothing, finally got a test ~48 hours since training and they were fine.
 

nothuman

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I wouldn't worry at all
 

Feeshoils

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here is a common study that I think most refer to......
Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men

Everytime I hear this that xercise can cause elevated ast/alt levels I wanna call bullshit...
I have never xperiences what the test has shown....
I have trained my entire life... and I have many many blood records that can show that Most of the time Off gear My ast/alt levels are weell within normal limits...
If you view the study. these levels will remain elevated 7-10 days post xercise ( weight training)
Now I train 5 days P/W so my levels should always be out of range...
However this study was done on ; "Fifteen healthy men, used to moderate physical activity not including weightlifting, performed an 1 h long weightlifting programme"

Liver function tests are significantly increased for at least 7 days after weightlifting among men used to moderate physical activity, but not used to performing weightlifting on a regular basis.



THIS IS NOT ME
Now if you fit this criteria than I think you are GTG and fit into this study and found yr answer. but if you wieght train regularly than you do not match the people in this study..
I dont think that a few points over limits is a big deal but I do think you have the wrong reason that they are over limit.....
I suggest read the study in its entirety and make your own judgement.

In this study, it has been shown that weightlifting resulted in profound increases in the liver function parameters, AST and ALT, as well as in LD, CK and myoglobin levels. Furthermore, we have been able to show that this effect was prolonged and that most subjects still had increased enzyme concentrations 1 week after performing the weightlifting programme. The duration of increased markers for muscle damage (myoglobin, CK, AST, ALT and LD) was in line with a recent study using strenuous one-arm exercise, in which all markers of muscle damage were significantly increased for up to 10 days after exercise [14]. There was, however, considerable variability in the extent of response to the heavy muscular exercise. One possible explanation for this could be that the subjects were used to varying amounts of physical activity in daily life. Other factors, e.g. ethnicity and diet, could also have contributed to this variability.
So its possible that the more you are used to strenuous xcercise or the more well train you are the less AST/ALT levels are effected....
That has been My xperience....


Peace
Very interesting article, thanks for posting that.
I love reading research and studies like that.. gets the brain ticking and intrigues me into wanting to learn more and get a better understanding of how the body works.

Based on my first initial post, with the information given, if it wasn't the exercise close to when i had the blood draw which could have increased AST/ALT, what do you think it could be?

Not being a Smartass, just looking for insight.
 

Feeshoils

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Liv52 is a waste of money compared to what's available out there. Take Tudca and NAC.
1gram of Tudca, 1.8gram of NAC
I purchased the liv52 as a knee jerk reaction to seeing bad liver results, having researched further, i've seen TUDCA and NAC pop up more and more, i'll be sure to invest in some.
 

grenada

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here is a common study that I think most refer to......
Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men

Everytime I hear this that xercise can cause elevated ast/alt levels I wanna call bullshit...
I have never xperiences what the test has shown....
I have trained my entire life... and I have many many blood records that can show that Most of the time Off gear My ast/alt levels are weell within normal limits...
If you view the study. these levels will remain elevated 7-10 days post xercise ( weight training)
Now I train 5 days P/W so my levels should always be out of range...
However this study was done on ; "Fifteen healthy men, used to moderate physical activity not including weightlifting, performed an 1 h long weightlifting programme"

Liver function tests are significantly increased for at least 7 days after weightlifting among men used to moderate physical activity, but not used to performing weightlifting on a regular basis.



THIS IS NOT ME
Now if you fit this criteria than I think you are GTG and fit into this study and found yr answer. but if you wieght train regularly than you do not match the people in this study..
I dont think that a few points over limits is a big deal but I do think you have the wrong reason that they are over limit.....
I suggest read the study in its entirety and make your own judgement.

In this study, it has been shown that weightlifting resulted in profound increases in the liver function parameters, AST and ALT, as well as in LD, CK and myoglobin levels. Furthermore, we have been able to show that this effect was prolonged and that most subjects still had increased enzyme concentrations 1 week after performing the weightlifting programme. The duration of increased markers for muscle damage (myoglobin, CK, AST, ALT and LD) was in line with a recent study using strenuous one-arm exercise, in which all markers of muscle damage were significantly increased for up to 10 days after exercise [14]. There was, however, considerable variability in the extent of response to the heavy muscular exercise. One possible explanation for this could be that the subjects were used to varying amounts of physical activity in daily life. Other factors, e.g. ethnicity and diet, could also have contributed to this variability.
So its possible that the more you are used to strenuous xcercise or the more well train you are the less AST/ALT levels are effected....
That has been My xperience....


Peace

IT is highly variable man. You can take two bodybuilders have them train and draw a level of creatine kinase (another enzyme found in muscle), and one can have a level of 400 while the other may have a level of 4000. It doesnt matter how experienced they are at training.


To the original poster, looking at you I would think you are on a shit load of useless supps. At your age all you need is a NSF certified creatine. You never know what is in these supps being made in any back yard factories. But barring that the supps are clean and you dont have any rare congenital problem most likely it IS exercise and stop training for 6 days and recheck.

Another clue I know doctors look at in labs is AST to ALT ratio. in Muscle AST is more predominant as opposed to in Liver ALT is more predominant. So if your AST is higher than ALT it is another indirect clue that it is probably coming from muscle. (however this is not always as clear cut. but a rough tid bit to go by.).
 
Last edited:

muscledoc1

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Liv52 is a waste of money compared to what's available out there. Take Tudca and NAC.
1gram of Tudca, 1.8gram of NAC
twice a day:
1000mg TUDCA
1,200mg NAC
Curcumin
liv 52
 

Feeshoils

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IT is highly variable man. You can take two bodybuilders have them train and draw a level of creatine kinase (another enzyme found in muscle), and one can have a level of 400 while the other may have a level of 4000. It doesnt matter how experienced they are at training.


To the original poster, looking at you I would think you are on a shit load of useless supps. At your age all you need is a NSF certified creatine. You never know what is in these supps being made in any back yard factories. But barring that the supps are clean and you dont have any rare congenital problem most likely it IS exercise and stop training for 6 days and recheck.

Another clue I know doctors look at in labs is AST to ALT ratio. in Muscle AST is more predominant as opposed to in Liver ALT is more predominant. So if your AST is higher than ALT it is another indirect clue that it is probably coming from muscle. (however this is not always as clear cut. but a rough tid bit to go by.).
I buy the nootropics powders raw and cap them myself, I order from a highly regarded online vendor and the quality is always good.

"in Muscle AST is more predominant as opposed to in Liver ALT is more predominant. So if your AST is higher than ALT it is another indirect clue that it is probably coming from muscle" < very interesting, i wasn't aware of that,

But as you said, having listed everything i take, i might as well cut back on them, save some dollars and get another test and have a look at the ratios closer for AST/ALT.

With uni exams coming up, it would be a perfect time to take a couple days off training, rest and then get another blood test.
 

Feeshoils

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Not sure if it's frowned upon to ask for sources for TUDCA and NAC, but if anyone could point me in the right direction or send me a PM suggesting High Quality Brands, it would be much appreciated.:headbang:
 

meanman

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This article was a great assistance for me.
I had alt/ast reading way high. (i think because too much drinking). My levels were around 180 for one of the level.s I researched Tudca and NAC and bought this supp on Amazon named CLEAR and CYCLE SUPPORT. They weren't expensive and after 2 weeks my liver values tests at or below normal.
 

Jasons1985

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Not sure if it's frowned upon to ask for sources for TUDCA and NAC, but if anyone could point me in the right direction or send me a PM suggesting High Quality Brands, it would be much appreciated.:headbang:

Dude just Google those. They are legal over the counter supplements...

I also had elevated levels being 10-12 weeks off cycle...had a hard training session night before test so who knows.
 

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