High Hemacrit post blood donation

[danieltx]

On 9/27/22 I had a quadruple bypass at age 62...Three consecutive days prior to the surgery I had a CBC...my hematocrit was between 52-54 and my hemoglobin was between 17-18...I had a CBC done every day after the surgery for 3 weeks...my hematocrit dropped to 23 in less than 24 hours and never got higher than 29 during those 3 weeks in intensive care...9 months after surgery my hematocrit was up to 45 and hemoglobin was up to 14...

I have donated whole blood twice a year for 30 years...helping others is a good thing to do especially since i am a universal donor...i'm sure you've been told that as hematocrit and hemoglobin rise your blood becomes thick like ketchup...thick blood is hard on the heart... don't overthink this...just donate...

This is the shit that is hurting the community and causing unneeded issues for guys.

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!

 

[romo]

Another area in which the search for definite answers continues, is the quest to find the active constituents of grapefruit juice that are responsible for its actions on CYP enzyme systems and Pgp. The components of grapefruit juice that are responsible for clinical drug interactions have yet to be fully determined but the compounds thought to be responsible for this action include flavonoid glycosides (narirutin, naringin, naringinen, quercetin, kaemferol, hesperidin, neohesperidin, didymin, and poncirin) [8,31-34], furanocoumarins (6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin, bergamottin) and sesquiterpen (nootkatone)[8,22,32,35,36].

Flavanoids exist in grapefruit juice in the form of glycosides, with naringin being the most abundant. Upon ingestion, these are converted to aglycones and sugars by the action of intestinal flora. Being polyphenolic and electron rich, these compounds can theoretically inhibit the CYP enzymes. However, studies have at most shown an in vitro effect by these compounds on the these enzymes and have failed to identify any in vivo effect by them [37,38], leading to an implication that they are probably not the main active ingredients of grapefruit juice [1,39]. Studies have even failed to demonstrate any sort of activity in naringin although its metabolite naringinin was observed to be active in vitro. Yet, because of their huge quantities in grapefruit juice, and the fact that naringin is not present in other citrus juices, flavanoids remain a subject of research.

The main focus at present, however, is on furanocoumarins. This group includes Bergamottin, its derivative 6' 7' dihydroxybergamottin (DHB) and a host of other compounds [40]. Controversy still exists on the degree of their role in the inhibitory effects of grapefruit juice. Several studies have shown DHB [23,35,40] and to an extent Bergamottin [23] to be important contributors to the grapefruit juice effect. In one study, the inhibitory potency of DHB and four recently isolated furanocoumarins, when mixed with one another, almost approached that of grapefruit juice. Omission of any of the components resulted in decreased potency, suggesting that all major furanocoumarins contribute to the inhibitory effects of grapefruit juice [40]. However, others have suggested that DHB and Bergamottin are not the primary substances responsible for inhibition of CYP activity clinically [41,42]. For now, this topic also remains a subject of intense research


Kiani J, Imam SZ. Medicinal importance of grapefruit juice and its interaction with various drugs. Nutr J. 2007 Oct 30;6:33. doi: 10.1186/1475-2891-6-33. PMID: 17971226; PMCID: PMC2147024.

Oh wow very interesting. So it seems naringin all by itself might not be to bad.

 

[Thor65]

This is the shit that is hurting the community and causing unneeded issues for guys.

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!

Please explain your thoughts on this topic? This isn’t a rebuttal, I’m truly interested, as I have zero knowledge on subject. High HCT has always scared me as all I know is what family docs have told me.

 

[danieltx]

Please explain your thoughts on this topic? This isn’t a rebuttal, I’m truly interested, as I have zero knowledge on subject. High HCT has always scared me as all I know is what family docs have told me.

This has been explained over and over on this board but nobody listens.

High hematocrit isn't an issue if platelet and red blood cells are in range. If it was you'd have sherpas and people living at altitude regularly dropping dead or in precarious health situations.

High hematocrit is an issue if you have a genetic clotting disorder. That's it. Then you do need to manage the numbers and you should be working with a doctor to do so.

Most bodybuilders have high hematocrit because they're chronically dehydrated and don't treat their sleep apnea - PEDs are a minimal cause.

Regular blood donations just to donate are a guaranteed way to destroy you ferritin levels and ensure your hematocrit doesn't come down - hematocrit almost always rebounds long-term with regular donations.

 

[pothole]

This has been explained over and over on this board but nobody listens.

High hematocrit isn't an issue if platelet and red blood cells are in range. If it was you'd have sherpas and people living at altitude regularly dropping dead or in precarious health situations.

High hematocrit is an issue if you have a genetic clotting disorder. That's it. Then you do need to manage the numbers and you should be working with a doctor to do so.

Most bodybuilders have high hematocrit because they're chronically dehydrated and don't treat their sleep apnea - PEDs are a minimal cause.

Regular blood donations just to donate are a guaranteed way to destroy you ferritin levels and ensure your hematocrit doesn't come down - hematocrit almost always rebounds long-term with regular donations.

For me, Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, and RBCs are always out of range. Platelets are never out of range they typically fall right in the middle of reference range.

You said above its not an issue if both platelets and RBCs are in range. Have you ever seen any one with with just high hematocrit and hemoglobin as well as in range RBCs?

if so i wonder if there is a way to lower RBCs in isolation.

 

[Bobik]

For me, Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, and RBCs are always out of range. Platelets are never out of range they typically fall right in the middle of reference range.

You said above its not an issue if both platelets and RBCs are in range. Have you ever seen any one with with just high hematocrit and hemoglobin as well as in range RBCs?

if so i wonder if there is a way to lower RBCs in isolation.

I only have high hematocrit and hemoglobin, but red blood cells and platelets are in range.

 

[danieltx]

For me, Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, and RBCs are always out of range. Platelets are never out of range they typically fall right in the middle of reference range.

You said above its not an issue if both platelets and RBCs are in range. Have you ever seen any one with with just high hematocrit and hemoglobin as well as in range RBCs?

if so i wonder if there is a way to lower RBCs in isolation.

Platelets are the main clotting factor, if they're in range you're very unlikely to clot. You're worrying too much about this unless you have a genetic clotting disorder.

 

[Dado5]

I can confirm that every time i donated blood my ferritin level is way down almost non existed. Usually at 2 or 4 only. I get shaky and palpitations every time ferritin is low.

 

[Stewie]

I can confirm that every time i donated blood my ferritin level is way down almost non existed. Usually at 2 or 4 only. I get shaky and palpitations every time ferritin is low.

I would be conscientious of not taking in too much zinc and manganese in a state of iron deficiency. If anything, I'd supplement with Iron Bisglycinate, or similar.

 

[alfresco]

This has been explained over and over on this board but nobody listens.

High hematocrit isn't an issue if platelet and red blood cells are in range. If it was you'd have sherpas and people living at altitude regularly dropping dead or in precarious health situations.

High hematocrit is an issue if you have a genetic clotting disorder. That's it. Then you do need to manage the numbers and you should be working with a doctor to do so.

Most bodybuilders have high hematocrit because they're chronically dehydrated and don't treat their sleep apnea - PEDs are a minimal cause.

Regular blood donations just to donate are a guaranteed way to destroy you ferritin levels and ensure your hematocrit doesn't come down - hematocrit almost always rebounds long-term with regular donations.

“Regular blood donations just to donate are a guaranteed way to destroy you ferritin levels and ensure your hematocrit doesn't come down - hematocrit almost always rebounds long-term with regular donations.”

Roger that. Had that experience. Iron got so low from years and years of regular donations. While it helped the community it was not a blessing I was told it would be. My iron / ferritin (I get them confused) was a 7!

Had a blood test yesterday, am sure it’s improved. Don’t have a clue how I did what I’m was doing. My doctor was amazed and did say no more donations.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Years back, maybe a decade plus everyone in the bodybuilding including myself went with the medical communities assessment of steroids/TRT and beware beware beware. Then Neal Rouzier came around and changed everyones opinion (myself included). As stated above by DanielTX and others, high platelets and clotting disorders are the problem.

The data does not lie. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/#:~:text=Background: Polycythemia is the most,≥180 g/L).

Repeated phlebotomy seems to exacerbate the problem.....

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.
b) Vitamin C usage absolutely ups the absorption of iron and the rbc cascade and will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin...dont use extra vitamin C if possible
c) lower your heme iron intake (red meat etc)
d) Cardio fit athletes always have lower hematocrit and hemoglobin levels than the normal public so much so that a lot of ultra cardio athletes deal with anemia (up cardio)
e) IP6 at 2000mg can chelate excess iron out of your system (a problem a lot of bbers have), green tea capsules can also. Men store iron and it can create havoc, Women lose iron in their periods and that (and other factors) are why women moreso than men deal with anemia
f) never seen that BS grapefruit study replicated in any successful way in any degree. It was done in 1988!!! So many have tried it since to control hematocrit and besides the token few who believe in it (probably because of natural fluctuation of H and H) the majority have tried it with no success whatsoever
g) a lot of blood pressure meds reduce red blood cell counts namely ace inhibitors (the "prils"), and doxazosin used for prostate enlargement has been shown to lower RBC's

 

[southernmucle214]

Years back, maybe a decade plus everyone in the bodybuilding including myself went with the medical communities assessment of steroids/TRT and beware beware beware. Then Neal Rouzier came around and changed everyones opinion (myself included). As stated above by DanielTX and others, high platelets and clotting disorders are the problem.

The data does not lie. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/#:~:text=Background: Polycythemia is the most,≥180 g/L).

Repeated phlebotomy seems to exacerbate the problem.....

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.
b) Vitamin C usage absolutely ups the absorption of iron and the rbc cascade and will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin...dont use extra vitamin C if possible
c) lower your heme iron intake (red meat etc)
d) Cardio fit athletes always have lower hematocrit and hemoglobin levels than the normal public so much so that a lot of ultra cardio athletes deal with anemia (up cardio)
e) IP6 at 2000mg can chelate excess iron out of your system (a problem a lot of bbers have), green tea capsules can also. Men store iron and it can create havoc, Women lose iron in their periods and that (and other factors) are why women moreso than men deal with anemia
f) never seen that BS grapefruit study replicated in any successful way in any degree. It was done in 1988!!! So many have tried it since to control hematocrit and besides the token few who believe in it (probably because of natural fluctuation of H and H) the majority have tried it with no success whatsoever
g) a lot of blood pressure meds reduce red blood cell counts namely ace inhibitors (the "prils"), and doxazosin used for prostate enlargement has been shown to lower RBC's

Are you still a believer of using nattokinase to help lower hematocrit?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Are you still a believer of using nattokinase to help lower hematocrit?

Yes it works for some people....(besides the fact that its so incredibly rare that people who use the proper dose of nattokinase ever suffer a dire blood clot)

 

[Stewie]

Years back, maybe a decade plus everyone in the bodybuilding including myself went with the medical communities assessment of steroids/TRT and beware beware beware. Then Neal Rouzier came around and changed everyones opinion (myself included). As stated above by DanielTX and others, high platelets and clotting disorders are the problem.

The data does not lie. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/#:~:text=Background: Polycythemia is the most,≥180 g/L).

Repeated phlebotomy seems to exacerbate the problem.....

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.
b) Vitamin C usage absolutely ups the absorption of iron and the rbc cascade and will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin...dont use extra vitamin C if possible
c) lower your heme iron intake (red meat etc)
d) Cardio fit athletes always have lower hematocrit and hemoglobin levels than the normal public so much so that a lot of ultra cardio athletes deal with anemia (up cardio)
e) IP6 at 2000mg can chelate excess iron out of your system (a problem a lot of bbers have), green tea capsules can also. Men store iron and it can create havoc, Women lose iron in their periods and that (and other factors) are why women moreso than men deal with anemia
f) never seen that BS grapefruit study replicated in any successful way in any degree. It was done in 1988!!! So many have tried it since to control hematocrit and besides the token few who believe in it (probably because of natural fluctuation of H and H) the majority have tried it with no success whatsoever
g) a lot of blood pressure meds reduce red blood cell counts namely ace inhibitors (the "prils"), and doxazosin used for prostate enlargement has been shown to lower RBC's

Highlighted in bold.

I stated very much the same thing 10 years ago. That fallacy is still amongst us.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/donating-blood-does-it-reduce-red-blood-cell-count.36935/page-3#post-1933633

 

[alfresco]

Years back, maybe a decade plus everyone in the bodybuilding including myself went with the medical communities assessment of steroids/TRT and beware beware beware. Then Neal Rouzier came around and changed everyones opinion (myself included). As stated above by DanielTX and others, high platelets and clotting disorders are the problem.

The data does not lie. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/#:~:text=Background: Polycythemia is the most,≥180 g/L).

Repeated phlebotomy seems to exacerbate the problem.....

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.
b) Vitamin C usage absolutely ups the absorption of iron and the rbc cascade and will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin...dont use extra vitamin C if possible
c) lower your heme iron intake (red meat etc)
d) Cardio fit athletes always have lower hematocrit and hemoglobin levels than the normal public so much so that a lot of ultra cardio athletes deal with anemia (up cardio)
e) IP6 at 2000mg can chelate excess iron out of your system (a problem a lot of bbers have), green tea capsules can also. Men store iron and it can create havoc, Women lose iron in their periods and that (and other factors) are why women moreso than men deal with anemia
f) never seen that BS grapefruit study replicated in any successful way in any degree. It was done in 1988!!! So many have tried it since to control hematocrit and besides the token few who believe in it (probably because of natural fluctuation of H and H) the majority have tried it with no success whatsoever
g) a lot of blood pressure meds reduce red blood cell counts namely ace inhibitors (the "prils"), and doxazosin used for prostate enlargement has been shown to lower RBC's

Damn. Glad your are back if only now and again.

 

[EricJ123]

Cpap if you need one.
Telmisartan has lowered my rbc's and crit

 

[whacked]

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.

Love this practical nugget for several reasons as my hydration stinks at times early in the AM for these fasted tests - then when my values are not great, I’m always left guessing of these were skewed only due to dehydration.

 

[Golden]

Years back, maybe a decade plus everyone in the bodybuilding including myself went with the medical communities assessment of steroids/TRT and beware beware beware. Then Neal Rouzier came around and changed everyones opinion (myself included). As stated above by DanielTX and others, high platelets and clotting disorders are the problem.

The data does not lie. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28150363/#:~:text=Background: Polycythemia is the most,≥180 g/L).

Repeated phlebotomy seems to exacerbate the problem.....

Its very simple if you are still worried about high hematorcrit
a) go in hydrated drinking a liter of water before blood testing....if you divide your creatinine into bun and it is higher than 20 you were dehydrated. If you are in the 12ish to 19ish range you are hydrated.
b) Vitamin C usage absolutely ups the absorption of iron and the rbc cascade and will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin...dont use extra vitamin C if possible
c) lower your heme iron intake (red meat etc)
d) Cardio fit athletes always have lower hematocrit and hemoglobin levels than the normal public so much so that a lot of ultra cardio athletes deal with anemia (up cardio)
e) IP6 at 2000mg can chelate excess iron out of your system (a problem a lot of bbers have), green tea capsules can also. Men store iron and it can create havoc, Women lose iron in their periods and that (and other factors) are why women moreso than men deal with anemia
f) never seen that BS grapefruit study replicated in any successful way in any degree. It was done in 1988!!! So many have tried it since to control hematocrit and besides the token few who believe in it (probably because of natural fluctuation of H and H) the majority have tried it with no success whatsoever
g) a lot of blood pressure meds reduce red blood cell counts namely ace inhibitors (the "prils"), and doxazosin used for prostate enlargement has been shown to lower RBC's

 

[lifter]

Stop donating. Nobody should be donating blood regularly unless they have a genetic clotting disorder. High red blood cells, platelets, and hematocrit are not an issue unless you have one of those disorders.

Hematocrit rebounds are common with regular blood donations along with tanked ferritin levels. Donating blood is not the way to get it down - you need to hydrate better, treat sleep apnea if you have it, etc.

I used to be about donating at least twice a year. However, I never really had issues until I did.
Now I bounce back and forth between my blood counts being too high or my iron taking too long to recover.
I've decided I'm done donating and I am going to see if this shit levels out.

Its a bitch trying to constantly either lower your blood counts or increase your iron so the doc don't freak.

 

[Black Beard]

Donated blood February 29th and Hemacrit was 48. Bloodwork on March 26th and Hemacrit is 51.6. Was running 500mg Test E annd 200mg Primo E and donated 1 week post cycle. Now cruising on 200mg Test E. Anyone ever experienced consistent high RBC and Hemacrit post cycle and after donating? Any supplement recommendations are also appreciated, I’ve read about Citrulline and Nattokinase

I wouldn't bat an eye when your hematocrit is under 53%. Always make sure you are well hydrated the day before and day of your test. (Clear to pale yellow urine). Being even a little dehydrated will artificially increase your hematocrit/RBC results.


It takes about 12 weeks for new red blood cells to be formed, that's why the allowed frequency for donation is around 3 months. More than likely, your hydration levels were different on Feb 29 and March 26.


You ferritin is right at the borderline level. You want that guy +60. Low ferritin will sap endurance, stamina, energy, and strength due to anemia. Can also affect your mood. Everytime you donate, you will lose iron/ferritin, so if you regularly donate, you should consider regular supplementation of iron.


Sleep apnea is a common cause of high HCT, so you can do a sleep study for that. Many guys have very good results from naringin or grape fruit extract for keeping HCT lower. There is some research supporting this too.


I would be more cautious/concerned once you are over 53%, especially if you have symptoms (headache, facial flushing, elevated BP, itchy/tingly feeling etc). There is a lot of controversy whether it is a concern or not, but to err on the side of caution it's not a bad idea to keep an eye on it.