Blood thinners on AAS

[bbxtreme]

really its good to know. maybe i will consider upping the doses! lol

ive done so many fucked up things really its crazy im still alive.
most docs dont like hearing the words cocaine and tobacco so they chalked my issues up to that and genetics. the amount of drugs ive done is absurd. only the male nurses were grilling me on aas. lol

aside from all that ill share this as im now a little suspicious. nac. its a suplement ive used a LOT of over the past 25 years. the only real issue you will hear in studies is potential to damage the mitral valve. i think mostly shown in younger men so i always wrote it off as didnt apply or bs. knowing mine is damaged now im not so sure. eating 1-2kg a year was normal for me as were 10+g ed doses. i always recommended it too. lower dose i guess are fine but if you push it... maybe think.

i figured i dont have ten more years left but hearing about your mom gives me hope! lol
good stuff bud
thank you

Do you have a normal EF rate? Was any damage done. I’d consider that before doing anything. Feel free to DM any direct details.

It’s messed up but most docs will judge you far worse for gear than they will cocaine, drugs or alcohol. Honestly, because most don’t understand it and doctors hate things they don’t know or understand.

Outside of working in the field, I have been dealing with heart stuff since I was a kid as it runs deep on both of my parents sides of the family. Because of that I work with some of the top cardiologist in the US. I know far more about the subject than I wish.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

really its good to know. maybe i will consider upping the doses! lol

ive done so many fucked up things really its crazy im still alive.
most docs dont like hearing the words cocaine and tobacco so they chalked my issues up to that and genetics. the amount of drugs ive done is absurd. only the male nurses were grilling me on aas. lol

aside from all that ill share this as im now a little suspicious. nac. its a suplement ive used a LOT of over the past 25 years. the only real issue you will hear in studies is potential to damage the mitral valve. i think mostly shown in younger men so i always wrote it off as didnt apply or bs. knowing mine is damaged now im not so sure. eating 1-2kg a year was normal for me as were 10+g ed doses. i always recommended it too. lower dose i guess are fine but if you push it... maybe think.

i figured i dont have ten more years left but hearing about your mom gives me hope! lol
good stuff bud
thank you

WHAAAT
That’s nuts. Never , EVER heard you make mention of this before……….

 

[stackdizzy]

Ok so I had a mechanical valve put in my heart about a month ago. Going to be awhile till I get seriously to the gym. Still have to get the INP via Warfrain correct. On 6mg right now.

Doctors say rest of the body and blood work looks good. 47 year old gym rat here.

Question is how safe would AAS be while on blood thinners and high blood pressure medication.

Plan on 500mg of test a week till fall time then maybe hit a heavier cycle.

50mg dbol (daily ed 1st 2 weeks)
750mg test C
250mg deca
250mg mast e

Opinions?

Yea I have an artificial heart valve myself. I've been through this mine was mitral and open heart.
i waited until my Dr said hrt was cool and started off on that for awhile like 2 years and I didn't even train during that time
Well i got Rhabdo and was extremely weak after that so I started training. Slowly i added in juice then more juice and then more juice
My Inr has never been effected by any compound until I recently started a masteron, tren, prop, sustanon cycle
My Inr was all over the place and high like 6.0 then I upped my dose of juice and it went bananas.
Wound up in the er here and do a search and you can read about it.

Roche PT/INR CoaguChek XS Meter Monitor Test Kit, INR. TESTED | eBay

Complete kit with lance tool, lances, travel case, manual and quick start guide.

www.ebay.com

Bought that as its the same machine they use in the dr office.
The things that you put the blood on are like 130 bucks for 12 so I just use it when I start a new compound.
I really caution you as using that much juice right off the bat might not be safe.
Plus I would add one compound at a time at low doses and then go up until you know how that will effect your inr.
I thought because one compound didn't do shit that they all wouldn't I was wrong about that.
I would also monitor your blood pressure and just get your inr checked by a dr so when they triage you and can immediately adjust you bp medication if needed
Ask away I might be able to help you avoid some of the pitfalls that I ran into. I was 41 when I got mine done and am 46 now
I don't pretend to kid myself I fully understand and accept that juice will probably kill me.

 

[dorian123]

My fraction rate is in the 60s last I heard

Judging by the comments I think I will start at 250mg of test E. If readings are good later bump to 500mg. STOP THERE...I'm not competing and I'm 47 so the big dog syndrome is fading fast

Will run this by my cardio dr and see what the test show

 

[warlock]

My fraction rate is in the 60s last I heard

Judging by the comments I think I will start at 250mg of test E. If readings are good later bump to 500mg. STOP THERE...I'm not competing and I'm 47 so the big dog syndrome is fading fast

Will run this by my cardio dr and see what the test show

I don't think any higher than 200mg/week is needed. I'd stick to 100-200mg a week to keep test levels in good range, then ensure you get your INR stable. This could take some time for some folks. In the meantime, get all the tests done and once your doctor tells you everything is 100% fine, you can always think about upping your dose.

What valve did you get fixed? Was it done through open heart-surgery or a catheter?

 

[dorian123]

I don't think any higher than 200mg/week is needed. I'd stick to 100-200mg a week to keep test levels in good range, then ensure you get your INR stable. This could take some time for some folks. In the meantime, get all the tests done and once your doctor tells you everything is 100% fine, you can always think about upping your dose.

What valve did you get fixed? Was it done through open heart-surgery or a catheter?

Mitral valve...
Open heart
Said everything but that one valve was in good shape

 

[bbxtreme]

Mitral valve...
Open heart
Said everything but that one valve was in good shape

That’s a good EF rate but knowing it was open heart I would def not touch anything over TRT for 6-12 months at minimum. Much more invasive.

 

[MAD_SCIENTIST]

They’re always a part of it or a catalyst. I don’t think anybody on here claims this is a healthy sport. LOL

But the majority of valve replacements are done through a cath now days. You get it done and go home the same day. My mother has had one since she was 32 and is still churning along in her 70’s.

@bbxtreme ...always giving pearls. Thank you.
When your mom did her valve replacement, how did they do it back then? And such a procedure was done to mom at such a young age?

MS

 

[bg65]

He had a valve replaced which was likely done through a cath as most are. Def far from open heart.

@dorian123 you have your answer as it sounds like you are just at the beginning of things. Do all the test, fully assess the situation and then take time to make a decision you are comfortable with.

Once damage is done to the heart generally things will never be the same or “as good” for most.

My opinion- go on TRT, do your testing and give this some thought. You don’t earn a living in this sport or compete so there’s more to life than risking it.

Mechanical valves are only placed via open heart surgery. Valves placed via a catheter are tissue valves. For bacterial endocarditis (which he said he had) the native valve is removed not just smashed out of the way like in a transcatheter placement. That's awesome abt your mom, 40 yrs ago a lot of heart surgery stuff was still really new.

 

[stackdizzy]

Mechanical valves are only placed via open heart surgery. Valves placed via a catheter are tissue valves. For bacterial endocarditis (which he said he had) the native valve is removed not just smashed out of the way like in a transcatheter placement. That's awesome abt your mom, 40 yrs ago a lot of heart surgery stuff was still really new.

Bg65 are you a Dr? You explain things the way my Dr has and you seem to be very well educated on this topic??

 

[Dave Perez]

On 9/27/22 I had a quadruple bypass and mitral valve replacement with a pig valve...I've been on a statin, baby aspirin, beta blocker, jardiance, entresto, and Xarelto (blood thinner) ...I started to experience hematuria (blood in urine) so my doctor took me off the Xarelto...I started training about 10 weeks after surgery...I was on trt for 30 weeks last year...I've been off for the past 20 weeks...just before my surgery my lvef was 15...it is 35 now...my bp is 110/70 on average and my heart rate is 60... I feel okay but at 64 my strength has decreased quite a bit...at 60 I could bench 315...last summer I did a single with 225...I just wanted to put my info out there...

 

[pesty4077]

That’s a good EF rate but knowing it was open heart I would def not touch anything over TRT for 6-12 months at minimum. Much more invasive.

TRT is not 200 mg for most guys either, more like 100 mg. He never said what his testosterone levels are to begin with. Testosterone will increase risk of blood clotting too. What exactly is his Hemoglobin or Hematocrit? On top of that he wants to be on a blood thinner. Personally I would never take Warfarin. I rather take Xarelto. Warfarin has to be monitored closely and even your diet or certain supplements can throw it off. I agree with you. He needs to take a deep breath and a revalidation of his thought process. Forget steroids for now and get your health in order first.

 

[pesty4077]

On 9/27/22 I had a quadruple bypass and mitral valve replacement with a pig valve...I've been on a statin, baby aspirin, beta blocker, jardiance, entresto, and Xarelto (blood thinner) ...I started to experience hematuria (blood in urine) so my doctor took me off the Xarelto...I started training about 10 weeks after surgery...I was on trt for 30 weeks last year...I've been off for the past 20 weeks...just before my surgery my lvef was 15...it is 35 now...my bp is 110/70 on average and my heart rate is 60... I feel okay but at 64 my strength has decreased quite a bit...at 60 I could bench 315...last summer I did a single with 225...I just wanted to put my info out there...

I am 64 too. My strength is nowhere near when I was young. I would just concentrate on being leaner and looking good. Of course health too.

 

[stackdizzy]

You can't take Xerelto or other blood thinners besides warfarin if you have a mechanical valve. Testosterone did not effect my inr at all. Hemocrit and.hemoglobin have also never been out of range. They usually just check you once a month or if your.off they might tell you comeback anywhere from 2 days to 3 weeks. Depending on how much your.off. And diet is not too much of an issue.if it is constantly the same amount of foods. Like you just don't start eating a bunch of Dark leafy greens that have vitamin k. Its fine.if you eat them but you just have to keep them consistent in your diet. its really not that too complex once its set. Its just initially steroids did not cause any problems but When I added tren and masteron it affected my inr which is back to where It should be. Though I agree that he.needs.some more time off than he.is.planning. I have also taken steps.to ensure I Test myself when I start new.compounds. I am very closely monitored by drs.and he should be as well.

 

[dorian123]

You can't take Xerelto or other blood thinners besides warfarin if you have a mechanical valve. Testosterone did not effect my inr at all. Hemocrit and.hemoglobin have also never been out of range. They usually just check you once a month or if your.off they might tell you comeback anywhere from 2 days to 3 weeks. Depending on how much your.off. And diet is not too much of an issue.if it is constantly the same amount of foods. Like you just don't start eating a bunch of Dark leafy greens that have vitamin k. Its fine.if you eat them but you just have to keep them consistent in your diet. its really not that too complex once its set. Its just initially steroids did not cause any problems but When I added tren and masteron it affected my inr which is back to where It should be. Though I agree that he.needs.some more time off than he.is.planning. I have also taken steps.to ensure I Test myself when I start new.compounds. I am very closely monitored by drs.and he should be as well.

Aside from test any other compounds play well? Maybe small amount of deca for the joints?

Any supplements work well too...
Multivitamin
Ostii Biio Flex
Zantac

 

[bbxtreme]

Mechanical valves are only placed via open heart surgery. Valves placed via a catheter are tissue valves. For bacterial endocarditis (which he said he had) the native valve is removed not just smashed out of the way like in a transcatheter placement. That's awesome abt your mom, 40 yrs ago a lot of heart surgery stuff was still really new.

I’m aware. I overlooked that he stated it was a mechanical valve. Thanks for giving further clarification for guys.

Procedures have come a long ways.

 

[bbxtreme]

@bbxtreme ...always giving pearls. Thank you.
When your mom did her valve replacement, how did they do it back then? And such a procedure was done to mom at such a young age?

MS

Hers was a tissue valve and my parents had money and good insurance thankfully so found a top doctor at the time who did it via cath. She runs circles around me still at her age. It’s crazy.

On my dads side- he was one of the first patients to get bypass surgery using the Divinci robot in his early 40’s, he’s had 4 heart attacks now (2 last year) and 9 stents.

I’ve lost two uncles and a grandfather under the age of 50 on my dad’s side from heart attacks and one had bypass 2 years prior via open heart for all 4 arteries. Grandmother had triple bypass twice before she passed at 83 as well which was unrelated.

Needless to say I’ve done genetic testing and have done every heart test there is as a bodybuilder because genetically one could say I am fucked in that department.

Outside of working in the field, to me it’s personal and have spent my whole life watching family deal with this.

The heart isn’t your liver, it doesn’t repair itself so anyone who’s had damage is playing with fire when it comes to gear and a damaged heart IMO.

 

[bg65]

They’re always a part of it or a catalyst. I don’t think anybody on here claims this is a healthy sport. LOL

But the majority of valve replacements are done through a cath now days. You get it done and go home the same day. My mother has had one since she was 32 and is still churning along in her 70’s.

Not at all trying to be confrontational, you post a lot of good info but your mom's first valve replacement at age 32 could not have been placed via TAVR. The very first human TAVR was done only around 22 years ago and in the US the FDA only approved them in 2011.
I don't point this out to argue but just that i don't want people thinking a tissue valve will last 38-40 years. That would be exceedingly rare, a good run for a tissue valve is more like around 20 years and thats in old people. Younger folks wear them out faster, so maybe 15 years... you are prob more up to date on the newest tissue valve prep and treatment prior to implantation so maybe they've gotten better at slowing down the calcification of the tissue valve. Young people, in general, are much better served w a mechanical valve to avoid re-operation in 15 years or so... the exciting thing there though now is placing a TAVR valve inside an old and worn TAVR valve but that's fairly new, within the last 10 years or so.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I agree with what others have said... get a home INR machine, introduce compounds slowly and always test INR w a new compound... and as others said, health>>>> being buff

 

[dorian123]

Not at all trying to be confrontational, you post a lot of good info but your mom's first valve replacement at age 32 could not have been placed via TAVR. The very first human TAVR was done only around 22 years ago and in the US the FDA only approved them in 2011.
I don't point this out to argue but just that i don't want people thinking a tissue valve will last 38-40 years. That would be exceedingly rare, a good run for a tissue valve is more like around 20 years and thats in old people. Younger folks wear them out faster, so maybe 15 years... you are prob more up to date on the newest tissue valve prep and treatment prior to implantation so maybe they've gotten better at slowing down the calcification of the tissue valve. Young people, in general, are much better served w a mechanical valve to avoid re-operation in 15 years or so... the exciting thing there though now is placing a TAVR valve inside an old and worn TAVR valve but that's fairly new, within the last 10 years or so.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I agree with what others have said... get a home INR machine, introduce compounds slowly and always test INR w a new compound... and as others said, health>>>> being buff

Yes this is why they put mechanical in me...said pig or cow would only last 10-15 years.
Stuck on Warfarin rest of my life but I'll just add that to the rest of my med protocol...

 

[bbxtreme]

Not at all trying to be confrontational, you post a lot of good info but your mom's first valve replacement at age 32 could not have been placed via TAVR. The very first human TAVR was done only around 22 years ago and in the US the FDA only approved them in 2011.
I don't point this out to argue but just that i don't want people thinking a tissue valve will last 38-40 years. That would be exceedingly rare, a good run for a tissue valve is more like around 20 years and thats in old people. Younger folks wear them out faster, so maybe 15 years... you are prob more up to date on the newest tissue valve prep and treatment prior to implantation so maybe they've gotten better at slowing down the calcification of the tissue valve. Young people, in general, are much better served w a mechanical valve to avoid re-operation in 15 years or so... the exciting thing there though now is placing a TAVR valve inside an old and worn TAVR valve but that's fairly new, within the last 10 years or so.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I agree with what others have said... get a home INR machine, introduce compounds slowly and always test INR w a new compound... and as others said, health>>>> being buff

Says everyone who follows it up with a confrontational post.

Look man, I am just going off what she told me years ago. She’s a nurse and who the hell knows maybe she lied and made it all up. We aren’t that close these days so have no desire to go tell her some bro from a bodybuilding forum is calling her a liar.

Excellent to know we have an interventional cardiologist on the forums. I never pretended to be one. Just work with the top ones in the US who have pioneered these procedures.

We have a lot more options today which is excellent for guys and think bodybuilders should take heart screening more serious. All I care about.