Hormones’ impact on blood work, your experience

[rotinaj]

As there is not much clinical data on AAS effects on blood work, I figure a thread on this would be beneficial for many.

For those who have a base dosage of their gear(ex HRT) that would be your control, the variables would be new compounds introduced and their dosage.
Results of concern are blood markers.


An example,

Control: A man uses 200mg test for TRT with know “normal” labs while maintained.
Variable: Hormone X introduced at xxx-mg
Results:
Estrogen increased/decreased by X
DHT increased/decreased by X
SHBG increased/decreased by X
LDL increased/decreased by X
HDL increased/decreased by X
etc.

As most people in the game long-term should be getting regular labs, I’m surprised by the absence of data out there.
It seems that people typically just use umbrella terms like “wrecked my hdl” “lowers shbg” “aromatizes” etc.

Has anyone actually recorded the impact of the hormones they put into their body and at what doses?
Having this information out there would likely aid people in being more proactive with their health.
And yes, the numbers could be individual however, a large set of data allows people to pull averages as to what to expect.

 

[aHarness]

I’m surprised by the absence of data out there.

I’m not sure I agree, I feel like there’s an abundance of data out there. We pretty much know the general impact of what most compounds will do on bloodwork at this point.

 

[rotinaj]

I’m not sure I agree, I feel like there’s an abundance of data out there. We pretty much know the general impact of what most compounds will do on bloodwork at this point.

where do you find this information? I sorted through a few research based sites and couldn’t come up with much beyond data on athletic protocols. The majority of what I found was basic TRT and nandrolone interventions for those with muscular wasting or hypogonadism.

 

[danieltx]

The only people who are really going to have substantial data to contribute here are coaches who make their clients get bloodwork and have significant sample sizes.

I'll say this even though some will ignorantly disagree and some will take moral offense - for the majority of guys it only takes about 8 weeks of being off or on HRT for their bloods to get back to normal. This is where the modern practice of 8-10 weeks off then back at it comes from. I'm not saying this is the ideal path as ideally you'd want bloods as good as possible for as long as possible, but it is common practice these days.

 

[pickapeck]

where do you find this information? I sorted through a few research based sites and couldn’t come up with much beyond data on athletic protocols. The majority of what I found was basic TRT and nandrolone interventions for those with muscular wasting or hypogonadism.

Pretty much 85% or more of the members on this site do regular blood work and they post it or about it. It's cheap, can be ordered online at a dozen internet sites and pretty much everybody on this site for more than a year knows what to look at in blood work. Personally, I was registered with the American Society of Clinical Pathologists in the 1990s so i can read blood work and know what it means.

 

[bbxtreme]

As there is not much clinical data on AAS effects on blood work, I figure a thread on this would be beneficial for many.

For those who have a base dosage of their gear(ex HRT) that would be your control, the variables would be new compounds introduced and their dosage.
Results of concern are blood markers.


An example,

Control: A man uses 200mg test for TRT with know “normal” labs while maintained.
Variable: Hormone X introduced at xxx-mg
Results:
Estrogen increased/decreased by X
DHT increased/decreased by X
SHBG increased/decreased by X
LDL increased/decreased by X
HDL increased/decreased by X
etc.

As most people in the game long-term should be getting regular labs, I’m surprised by the absence of data out there.
It seems that people typically just use umbrella terms like “wrecked my hdl” “lowers shbg” “aromatizes” etc.

Has anyone actually recorded the impact of the hormones they put into their body and at what doses?
Having this information out there would likely aid people in being more proactive with their health.
And yes, the numbers could be individual however, a large set of data allows people to pull averages as to what to expect.

The rule of thumb is much simpler than what you’re trying to make it IMO.

You should keep your blood work in range while on cycle and in whatever stage you’re in- progressive/prep.

I know coaches and guys who have looser rules like “liver enzymes can be elevated by 25%, HDL drops to 20 or 15, etc”.

I personally don’t follow the second one because I push until things come out of balance, and if they do I correct what is needed to keep items in range. That could be changing dosages, supplements, cardio, diet or last resort medication.

But I think that’s the new standard today that coaches are going by and is what I go by. As I’ve said on here before- my last show in October we really pushed hard in all aspects and my blood work was still all in range when I ran it 3 days post show.

Just my opinion and experience. You can’t bodybuild without your health. So why some guys put it second to bodybuilding is beyond me.

 

[aHarness]

where do you find this information?

Here is a good place. I’m surprised you haven’t picked up on the impacts of most compounds on bloodwork just by reading considering you’ve been here since 2013. Just understanding what the drugs do from a physiological standpoint and their drug classes is a good place to start.

 

[luki7788]

The rule of thumb is much simpler than what you’re trying to make it IMO.

You should keep your blood work in range while on cycle and in whatever stage you’re in- progressive/prep.

I know coaches and guys who have looser rules like “liver enzymes can be elevated by 25%, HDL drops to 20 or 15, etc”.

I personally don’t follow the second one because I push until things come out of balance, and if they do I correct what is needed to keep items in range. That could be changing dosages, supplements, cardio, diet or last resort medication.

But I think that’s the new standard today that coaches are going by and is what I go by. As I’ve said on here before- my last show in October we really pushed hard in all aspects and my blood work was still all in range when I ran it 3 days post show.

Just my opinion and experience. You can’t bodybuild without your health. So why some guys put it second to bodybuilding is beyond me.

I agree 100% - throughout the year including the period before the competition my clients' blood results are normal with some small deviations which is normal when we push the body to its limits.

Oh and I also don't do this whole ridiculous "pseudo-health phase" lol - you have to be healthy all year round, not just for a few weeks - only a healthy body develops optimally

 

[aHarness]

Oh and I also don't do this whole ridiculous "pseudo-health phase" lol - you have to be healthy all year round, not just for a few weeks - only a healthy body develops optimally

You mean 6 weeks on 200 test isn’t going to magically make me healthy?!

 

[aHarness]

You mean 6 weeks on 200 test isn’t going to magically make me healthy?!

Jokes aside, I truly believe many coaches/athletes do this (or just lie and say they did) simply to be able to say they took time off… because I still see this implemented by very intelligent coaches that absolutely know that it’s the same as being on year round

 

[luki7788]

Jokes aside, I truly believe many coaches/athletes do this (or just lie and say they did) simply to be able to say they took time off… because I still see this implemented by very intelligent coaches that absolutely know that it’s the same as being on year round

yes - this is an illusion that gives customers the belief that they are doing something "healthy" lol

 

[aDw32]

Doing a "health phase" just for a temporarily improved bloods it's BS of course. But let's have look on this from the other side..

6 weeks 2 times a year = 12 weeks x 5 years = 60 weeks

Which is a whole fuck** year on low dose instead of grams of PEDs.

During 10 years there are 2 years.

That's a lot.

Bloods don't tell you all about your health unfortunately.

Luki's right. You have to be healthy all year round. But don't tell me guys, periods on low PEDs doesn't count in long term game. They definitely DO.

 

[aHarness]

Which is a whole fuck** year on low dose instead of grams of PEDs.

When you’re putting them in 6 week periods between cycles using things like deca, eq etc nothing is actually out of your system. Completely different and not comparable to 60 weeks off completely.

 

[aDw32]

Yes it's not as well as presence in blood stream in low concentration vs high. You can do also once a year 12 weeks.. above it's just example

 

[bbxtreme]

Yes it's not as well as presence in blood stream in low concentration vs high. You can do also once a year 12 weeks.. above it's just example

Guys who compete at a serious level today don’t do health phases (most of them). They generally just go from say 2500mg of gear to 1500mg (rough example).

Or they drop orals, tren, or move to Test/Primo for a period.

You are correct- when I say testing I don’t mean just blood work. It’s cardiology screening, BP, RHR, sleep tracking, blood oxygen etc.

The goal is to maximize while staying as healthy as possible as @luki7788 and I have said.

 

[Icarus]

As there is not much clinical data on AAS effects on blood work, I figure a thread on this would be beneficial for many.

For those who have a base dosage of their gear(ex HRT) that would be your control, the variables would be new compounds introduced and their dosage.
Results of concern are blood markers.


An example,

Control: A man uses 200mg test for TRT with know “normal” labs while maintained.
Variable: Hormone X introduced at xxx-mg
Results:
Estrogen increased/decreased by X
DHT increased/decreased by X
SHBG increased/decreased by X
LDL increased/decreased by X
HDL increased/decreased by X
etc.

As most people in the game long-term should be getting regular labs, I’m surprised by the absence of data out there.
It seems that people typically just use umbrella terms like “wrecked my hdl” “lowers shbg” “aromatizes” etc.

Has anyone actually recorded the impact of the hormones they put into their body and at what doses?
Having this information out there would likely aid people in being more proactive with their health.
And yes, the numbers could be individual however, a large set of data allows people to pull averages as to what to expect.

Most people do not start labs prior to using as such they don't really have a clear baseline. Then there are so many variables and often multiple compounds often mislabeled very difficult to determine what is doing what exactly. People not on gear also get flags on their bloodwork if you get a flag is it because you are using supplements or just because you are a 50 years old?

 

[aDw32]

Guys who compete at a serious level today don’t do health phases (most of them). They generally just go from say 2500mg of gear to 1500mg (rough example).

Or they drop orals, tren, or move to Test/Primo for a period.

You are correct- when I say testing I don’t mean just blood work. It’s cardiology screening, BP, RHR, sleep tracking, blood oxygen etc.

The goal is to maximize while staying as healthy as possible as @luki7788 and I have said.

I know what they do. Going down from 2.5 to 1.5 is even more stupid than "health phases"

Just saying not to underestimate periods on low PEDs considering long time run. There are many factors to be considered of course but the main clue is - periodic low use > lack of them at all in terms of health in long term

 

[luki7788]

Guys who compete at a serious level today don’t do health phases (most of them). They generally just go from say 2500mg of gear to 1500mg (rough example).

Or they drop orals, tren, or move to Test/Primo for a period.

You are correct- when I say testing I don’t mean just blood work. It’s cardiology screening, BP, RHR, sleep tracking, blood oxygen etc.

The goal is to maximize while staying as healthy as possible as @luki7788 and I have said.

@bbxtreme knows what he's talking about

I've been saying this for years - there is no such thing as off or trt in bodybuilding at the highest level

the so-called "off" is, for example, 1-2g test 10iu gh and insulin - of course I'm talking about 95% because there will always be an exception to the rule, but you are stuck for a short period of your life (I'm talking about competing at the highest level), that is, on average 8-10 years and during this time you are almost constantly on high doses of gear

 

[aDw32]

And to be clear. Luki always refers to professional/SHW bb. Different rules, different level of taking risk, different goals. Currying that level of muscle is burdening the heart itself. But that's what professional bb is about. Either you take risk or give up. I look at this in much much wider perspective.

 

[luki7788]

And to be clear. Luki always refers to professional/SHW bb. Different rules, different level of taking risk, different goals. Currying that level of muscle is burdening the heart itself. But that's what professional bb is about. Either you take risk or give up. I look at this in much much wider perspective.

Exactly - you have to distinguish between the highest level and guys who just want to look good on the beach in the summer. However, I always refer to professionals/super heavyweights because that's the type of people I mainly work with