HIT

[ZEBRA]

What do you guys think of the HIT routine thay added 60 lbs to Casey Viator in the Colorodo experiment? Do full body HIT routines work or Everyother half body splits 3x a week?

Z

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

What do you guys think of the HIT routine thay added 60 lbs to Casey Viator in the Colorodo experiment? Do full body HIT routines work or Everyother half body splits 3x a week?

Z

Can you expound on what you said about Casey? Also, not sure what you meant about HIT??

 

[flexmaster]

Can you expound on what you said about Casey? Also, not sure what you meant about HIT??

he's talking about a program called size surge...it uses the myotatic reflex, positions of flexion, and some other types of training i cant remember. but casey had already lost tons of muscle from a car accident or something before starting size surge.

 

[ZEBRA]

Interview

Here is an interview with Casey and how Arthur Jones had him to use HIT to gain 60 lbs.

http://www.i-a-r-t.com/articles/viatorinterview.html


Here is a break down of the experiment

http://www.bodybuildingfanatic.com/coloradoexperiment.htm

Z

 

[Conan21]

Casey viator had quit lifting before that and only weighed 160 lbs

Then he ate a ton of food and took alot of steroids.

 

[Moen]

Which is of course what they all do my man Conan Hehe

 

[Moen]

I thought Arthur Jones was underground but check out the comparison of Viator '8 days apart', would not look bad in the next Cell-Tech ad

 

[Dad]

Conan is right

The real story behind the now-ledgenday "Colorado Experiment" is this.

Casey was working on an offshore oil rigm abd hadn't trained for well over a year. He slowly dropped down from around 213 pounds or so to about 160. Then he injured his hand while working on the oil rig, was hospitalized for this, and dropped even more weight.

After he gets out of the hospital, Arthur Jones loads him up with all the food and gear he can, trains him, and lo and behold - he gains back the muscle mas HE'D ALREADY HAD!

There is NO mystery to this, and it would work the same for any experienced (or even less experienced) bodybuilder. Take someone, cuttheir food ,and have them cease training, and they'll slowly lose muscle. Then after weeks (or more) of this, force feed them and at the same time have thme train heavy, and use gear. THey'll bounce back to their former weight, and maybe even a little above.

Of course, the Nautilus/Mentzer/Jones/SuoreSlow/Hutchins devotees won't tell it like this- largly because they don't know the real story. I'm amazed this old myth still circulates!

 

[chris mason]

Well now, let's not get carried away Dad. Not EVERYONE would add that much mass as quickly given the same circumstances. Casey had some pretty unique heredity when it comes to adding mass I am sure you will agree.

It is correct that Casey had sustained an injury and then had an allergic reaction to a tetanus shot which nearly killed him. In his own words he also starved himself a bit just before the "experiment" took place.

He also had weighed over 200 muscular pounds before all of this took place so he was experiencing "muscle memory" big-time during the "experiment".

The issue of gear use is more clouded as Jones and Viator both deny it. That said, it is obvious to me that he used if you look at the bloat in his face at the end when he presumably reduced his body fat levels (i.e. you don't get leaner and have a more bloated face unless you are retaining water).

So, while anyone would have put on some serious muscle given the same circumstances it not everyone would gain in the same fashion as Casey the genetic freak!

To answer the question directly, the program is effective, yes. HIT can be very effective but only if practiced for short periods for the natural trainee. The reason for this is that fact that it is self-limiting in that your nervous system will progressively demand longer and longer rest periods between sessions as you progress. This will eventually lead to the nervous system required recovery time so out-stripping that of the muscles that muscular growth will become stangnant at best and the trainee will experience atrophy at worst.

 

[Dad]

Chris,

I'm not getting "carried away." I spent time with Nautilus in DeLand, FL before they were sold, knew Mentzer well, and found out a lot of the "behind the scenes" facts regarding many of the stories such as Casey's that continue (aparrently) to make the rounds.

I won't bore everyone by going through all I've written about this in the past, but you can do a search under my name and read more if you'd like.

Yes, Casey did have elite-level genetics - no question. Would just anyone be able to gain 60 lbs. as Casey did? No, and that's not what I said. I said they'd be able to RE-GAIN previously held muscle under similar circumstances.

The whole Colorado Experiment is used to imply that it's possible, simply because of the version of HIT training Casey did, and ESCLUSIVELY due to this version of HIT (never mind the drugs, food, and whatnot - Jones and Casey can deny whatever they want) to gain 60 lbs of muscle in a very short period of time. In Casey's situation, this was, as you correctly point out, a great example of muscle memory at work. Unfortunately, many people read this and interpret the story as though Casey somehow gained 60 pounds of muscle he'd never had. Those who use this story to support their arguments, are at best, simply ignorant of the true afcts, and at worst, engaging in a lie by ommision.

 

[chris mason]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification of your point.

I agree with the point of what you had to say about people not knowing the "rest of the story".

By the way, what is you real name Dad? When did you work for Nautilus?

 

[Dad]

Nautilus

Hi Chris,

I didn't work for Nautilus. I was one of a number of competitive bodybuilders in the 1980's who went to Deland to train, and try and get some first-hand coaching after reading a number of Jones' and Darden's articles/books.

I, along with Eddie Robinson, was one of the first to be trained by Ken Hutchins on the SuperSlow protocol. It didn't, and doesn't work well for bodybuilding, though it was a good protocol for the Osteoporosis Project for which it was initially developed. In a population of elderly, osteoporosis patients, the first consideration has to be avoiding injury, and SuperSlow works well for this, and in some rehab settings.

 

[luckyone]

What type of training do you feel works best

HI Dad, after your experiences with nautilus and super-slow training I am curious as to what type of training YOU found to work best for yourself in adding size.

 

[Dad]

Lucky,

For ME, to add mass and size, I use a three day routine that relies primarly on power-type lifts such as squats, hacks, leg presses, chins, overhead presses, rack pulls, shugs, various types of deadlifts, rowing, etc.

Now, does this mean I think this will work the same for everyone? Not necessarily, it may work better for some than it does for me, it may not work as well. The deciding factor in all this is GENETICS. When I first started training MANY years ago, I gained 25 lbs of muscle in a year (I was always lean) on 20 sets per bodypart, 6 day a week workouts (a la Arnold style), and a diet of hamburgers, scotch whiskey, and late nights. In other words, I knew NOTHING about training and diet, did EVERYTHING wrong, and STILL gained 25 lbs the first year, and 10+ the second, all before ever touching AAS.

Just saying this to point out the importance of genetics above all else. The irony is: If you have good/great genetics, it doesn't really matter how you train, and if you have mediocre/poor genetics it also doesn't really matter how you train because you're going to be limited by what you came in with.

Yeah, yeah, lots of people will argue with this and say "will," and "determination," "drive," and all that will allow someone to succeed. Muscle magazine nonsense. Yuo'll suceed to the level of your genetically-determined ability.

So don't put too much faith in the way I say I train - figure out what combination of variables works best for you!

 

[JoeS]

True Dat

Dad you said it. If you look at all the great built men one thing is in common,Genetics. If you ask how they train everyone would have a different way of training. May it be sets,reps,splits,days training ect. But they all have one thing in common, great physiques. I know freinds who would just look at a weight and grow. I would bust my ass and he would train 1-2x a week and look 100x better than me.He looked like he trained even when he took months off.
I think it is Genetics,Nutrition,Gear,Training.
Just a thought from someone with average genetics.

Joe