how did bodybuilders keep gains before there was "pct"

[oldfella]

Some of this depends on how long you have been training. If you got big and stayed this way for some years then you can come off the supps and retain a good deal of the mass you gained. The recipe for this is the same as putting the mass on in the first place. Eat right (for mass), train right and hard, get rest and you will keep what you worked hard for. The exception would be a newbie that trained for six months, juiced for six months, got as big as a house and then quit juicing!! Most if not all the gains would deminish over time.....why? Because your body was never that big and did not stay that big for long enough. Pct would not save this individual, only time under the iron and on diet would. As for PCT, well it is s myth! I will get fried for this but pct is a waste of time. We did not do it back in the day and many still do not do it.......why? because it does not work. The idea that you can kick start anything by switching to some preparations that are only prescribed to women and this will aid in retaining mass is ludicrous at best. Remember this about PCT, your natural production was suspended by the introduction of artificial hormones into the body. Your body perceives this as overproduction and scales back or shuts down natural production to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. All you are doing by adding PCT at the end is delaying the normal production due to the continued exogenous supply of hormones to your body. When you decided to introduce hormones exogenously to your system...........that was the day you altered your body chemistry for life!! This is my opinion and the truth as I believe it. I am not speaking for anyone else here. PCT at best is a very controversial subject and also open to much speculation. Believe what you will!!

 

[hawkmoon]

Some of this depends on how long you have been training. If you got big and stayed this way for some years then you can come off the supps and retain a good deal of the mass you gained. The recipe for this is the same as putting the mass on in the first place. Eat right (for mass), train right and hard, get rest and you will keep what you worked hard for. The exception would be a newbie that trained for six months, juiced for six months, got as big as a house and then quit juicing!! Most if not all the gains would deminish over time.....why? Because your body was never that big and did not stay that big for long enough. Pct would not save this individual, only time under the iron and on diet would.

This, I believe, is absolutely true and good guidance as well for inexperienced BBers.

 

[MrCyp]

What era did Munzer compete in? Wasnt it a pretty long ass time ago? Seemed like they still had a lot of shit.

Anabolics 2005
This is the last cycle that Andreas Munzer took before he died

Weeks 1-10
ephedrine
aspirin
clenbuterol
valium
captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--
cytomel

Weeks 1-5
500mg daily of test enanthate 3.5 grams a week
152mg daily of parabolan
150mg daily of dianabol 1 gram of dbol a week??? holy shit!!!
150mg daily of halotestin
20 IU daily of HGH
20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8
300mg daily of masteron
152mg daily of parabolan
250mg daily of winstrol tabs
150mg daily of halotestin
50mg daily of winstrol inj
24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10
200mg daily of masteron
100mg daily of winny inj
200mg daily of halotestin
400mg daily of winny tabs
24 IU daily of HGH
Insulin daily
IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show
aldactone, lasix

 

[burman]

didn't the pro's like arnold just stay on most of the year if not all year?

 

[w8tlifterty]

Some of this depends on how long you have been training. If you got big and stayed this way for some years then you can come off the supps and retain a good deal of the mass you gained. The recipe for this is the same as putting the mass on in the first place. Eat right (for mass), train right and hard, get rest and you will keep what you worked hard for. The exception would be a newbie that trained for six months, juiced for six months, got as big as a house and then quit juicing!! Most if not all the gains would deminish over time.....why? Because your body was never that big and did not stay that big for long enough. Pct would not save this individual, only time under the iron and on diet would. As for PCT, well it is s myth! I will get fried for this but pct is a waste of time. We did not do it back in the day and many still do not do it.......why? because it does not work. The idea that you can kick start anything by switching to some preparations that are only prescribed to women and this will aid in retaining mass is ludicrous at best. Remember this about PCT, your natural production was suspended by the introduction of artificial hormones into the body. Your body perceives this as overproduction and scales back or shuts down natural production to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. All you are doing by adding PCT at the end is delaying the normal production due to the continued exogenous supply of hormones to your body. When you decided to introduce hormones exogenously to your system...........that was the day you altered your body chemistry for life!! This is my opinion and the truth as I believe it. I am not speaking for anyone else here. PCT at best is a very controversial subject and also open to much speculation. Believe what you will!!

Great post OF, you dont post often anymore but I appreciate your 'words of wisdom" when you do.

 

[HOTROCKS]

I will get fried for this but pct is a waste of time. We did not do it back in the day and many still do not do it.......why? because it does not work.

Not to be disrespectful, but
Are you telling me that when coming off a cycle that has shut you natural production down ( fact) ,that aiding your body with a good PCT to get things back to normal( fact) is a myth ?
Baahaha !

Why have you came to this conclusion ?
Can you back up that claim with evidence ?

Peace

 

[ICU11b]

Never used PCT in my twenties, nolva during cycle. Body would recover very fast. In late thirties & I recover faster w/ the use of HCG than not. Tried it both ways. The boys just dont pump like they used to...

 

[Silencer]

didn't the pro's like arnold just stay on most of the year if not all year?

I can't speak to their usages, but I have read multiple bios of old-time lifters where many of those pros didn't even go to the gym for a parts of the off season. As someone else mentioned in this thread, they were focused towards winning one or two contests per year, not being huge all year round.

I can't recall who it was, but one pro in the 70s wrote about how he didn't even go to the gym for several months until it was roughly 20 weeks out from the Olympia. If I stayed out of the gym for even a month, I don't think I'd be recognizable... Thats genetics at play right there.

 

[oldfella]

Not to be disrespectful, but
Are you telling me that when coming off a cycle that has shut you natural production down ( fact) ,that aiding your body with a good PCT to get things back to normal( fact) is a myth ?
Baahaha !

Why have you came to this conclusion ?
Can you back up that claim with evidence ?

Peace

Use of exogenous hormones will always interfere with normal production, beit male or female preparations. Most of all PCT is made up of female preparations that males would not normally use. Yes they can be used to treat certain medical conditions, but when we choose to interrupt our normal production by overloading our endocrine systems with exogenous hormones this is not a medical condition. It is simply our bodies trying to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. Once the level of hormone is low enough natural production (under normal circumstance) will resume. Will it resume to what we call normal? Have we done irrepairable damage to our endo system by prolonged use of exogenous hormones? The answer to both questions would probably be a yes. Now introduce female hormones to the equation, or eradicate them by using anti-estro and progesterone prearations and all you are doing is prolonging the strain on an already exhausted endo system. many of the PCT drugs of choice are used for estrogen related problems in females and breast cancer or ovarian cancer sufferers and a host of other gynecological/reproductive issues. As males we really have no need for these. I make no claim here, I simply put forward my opinion after many years of trial and error. The truth is that many of the pro's stay on year round. They only ramp up the dose for comps and add compounds. So PCT is low dose test for many. Not the wholesale introduction of female hormonal preparations and drugs prescribed for female reproductive disorders. Fact is the medical fraternity has no real solid research into this area, or any area of the drug abuse we subject ourselves to. My experience, the best PCT is getting your health back in order, give your endocrine system a break, eat healthy, train hard and rest. Your natural production will restart in due course. As stated in my first post. We change our endocrine system forever once we put the first jab in. It will never be the same after that. Oh and I take nor mean any disrespect. Healthy debate is good for us all and thought provoking. But there seems to be a gluttony of threads here regarding PCT and they all contradict each other. Why is this so?

 

[nandro]

i've tried it with and without for several years. didnt really notice a difference. i lost water and nitrogen retention went down within 2 weeks of ending cycles. i could get back on months later and be back to same size and strength within weeks. the llast year i found that bolus typical test esters at beginning along with suspension and finished with suspension....fast jump start...fast out. never ever blends. that was my pct...lol

 

[jalsmiley]

Use of exogenous hormones will always interfere with normal production, beit male or female preparations. Most of all PCT is made up of female preparations that males would not normally use. Yes they can be used to treat certain medical conditions, but when we choose to interrupt our normal production by overloading our endocrine systems with exogenous hormones this is not a medical condition. It is simply our bodies trying to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. Once the level of hormone is low enough natural production (under normal circumstance) will resume. Will it resume to what we call normal? Have we done irrepairable damage to our endo system by prolonged use of exogenous hormones? The answer to both questions would probably be a yes. Now introduce female hormones to the equation, or eradicate them by using anti-estro and progesterone prearations and all you are doing is prolonging the strain on an already exhausted endo system. many of the PCT drugs of choice are used for estrogen related problems in females and breast cancer or ovarian cancer sufferers and a host of other gynecological/reproductive issues. As males we really have no need for these. I make no claim here, I simply put forward my opinion after many years of trial and error. The truth is that many of the pro's stay on year round. They only ramp up the dose for comps and add compounds. So PCT is low dose test for many. Not the wholesale introduction of female hormonal preparations and drugs prescribed for female reproductive disorders. Fact is the medical fraternity has no real solid research into this area, or any area of the drug abuse we subject ourselves to. My experience, the best PCT is getting your health back in order, give your endocrine system a break, eat healthy, train hard and rest. Your natural production will restart in due course. As stated in my first post. We change our endocrine system forever once we put the first jab in. It will never be the same after that. Oh and I take nor mean any disrespect. Healthy debate is good for us all and thought provoking. But there seems to be a gluttony of threads here regarding PCT and they all contradict each other. Why is this so?

good post..it is so because if you read 99.9 percent of the pct observations around here are from bathroom chemist...there is a reason we dont have a cure for aids or cancer etc...theories sound good in your head(even in top scientists heads) but when actually put to the test in human bodies things dont always work the way you think

as for my opinion....im not sold on pct, but not ruling out there is something that can help...but what...i not sure...i like to stick to long ass taper of test n maybe a little nolv....i dont care to try more than that

 

[Athlete]

What about the now famous PoWeR PCT by Scally et al? That is supposedly a very effective PCT protocol by people that (supposedly) know what they're talking about? And the purpose of that study was, if I remember correctly, to use the protocol on HIV positive individuals after Testosterone supplementation.

 

[sirpumpsalot]

Excellant topic..... Hat's off to the old dogs. I have pyramided the few cycles that I've done with no PTC therapy and had moderate success, but I am also one of those guys that doesn't have a big problem with sides also, KNOCK ON WOOD! However, I plan to implement the recommended insurance and protection meds in the future as I venture into more complicated and taylored stacks.

 

[carrierdome]

My first cycle was in 1979. The big difference I see from then to now is RESPECT. The guys I hung with respected the gear and also feared it. Luckily at that time most of what we used was scripted by a local Dr. as they were not illegal. If guys ran more than 6-8 weeks they didnt tell anybody.

My first cycle was 200mg. test/wk. and 6mg. Winstrol/day.

 

[HOTROCKS]

We change our endocrine system forever once we put the first jab in. It will never be the same after that

Huh !
I've never read anything that would attest to that ?
But,I would like to .
Old Fella
In addition you made some additional claims . May I ask how you came to these conclusions ?

Respect

 

[W8killa]

The best way to kick start your natural test is to control your estrogen after your cycle. There are many significant studies proving that stopping the estrogen feedback mechanism significantly increases your "natural" testosterone to superphysical levels. Aromatase inhibitors accomplish this.

PCT is not a waste of time by any means if you take the above approach.

 

[sarcoplasm]

Listen,
You have a great many of HRT doctors who follow SOMEN sort of pct philosophy/protocol to restore testsuppression, hpta function ect. They do this by viewing and reviewing BLOODWORK!!! Do we think that they pull these principles out of their ass! I hate when a bro says I FEEL! restored or I don't FEEL shutdown! What the hell is THAT! Any theory on pct has got to be backed up by bloodwork just like any other medical protocol. I would rather trust a knowledgeable Dr. on this like Swale then some bros on the net (and I highly respect many of you) I'm sure it's not a cut and dried subject but to say it has no merit is hard to swallow. I do agree with one thing that Oldfella said though and that is that once you took that first jab your endocrine system is altered forever and my bloodwork proves that

 

[sarcoplasm]

didn't the pro's like arnold just stay on most of the year if not all year?

No they did not, there was no need to. There was only one pro show until around 1980 and there were far less appearances and guest posings. There was no talk or hint of gyno or medical problems seemingly no acne no muscle tears till Tom platz and dosages were way less for way shorter periods than today, but remember the pro's of yesteryear would have there hands full at a big NPC show today

 

[jalsmiley]

The best way to kick start your natural test is to control your estrogen after your cycle. There are many significant studies proving that stopping the estrogen feedback mechanism significantly increases your "natural" testosterone to superphysical levels. Aromatase inhibitors accomplish this.

PCT is not a waste of time by any means if you take the above approach.

after all my internet BS research..this is the only pct that makes any sense to me...limiting estrogen in hopes of your body kicking LH levels and thus starting test production...which to me sounds like best method would be a seriously long taper down of test with a little bit of nolvadex....which again sounds like the pct of the old days

 

[Ironraider]

Back "in the day" there was no real PCT protocol. As shared my Hawnkmoon and a few others, we had HCG or Pregnazol (sp). Many would just go on 6/8/12 week cycles, and stay off for the same period of time or so. The amounts taken were subjected to the person taking them, but like nowadays, you really didn't know for certain. However, I do know of guys taking over a gram per week. Since it was human grade, you didn't have nearly the concern that you do today of quality and dosages (under/over).

If you did buy them through the "blackmarket" there were risks at getting bunk. Why blackmarket? It was more affordable in most cases. Plus it was hard to find Fina etc. I don't ever recall Test has been frowned upon.

As to the anti-es etc that we have today as a protocol. Bloodwork is the only real way to find out for yourself if it is effective. I personally feel that it has its place in recovery. As the "game" changes through research, we can adjust our tactics to fit new and upgraded plans. Like everything, you can continue to do it the way you always have done, or look at the new products that are available to assist in recovery. Do they work? Guess that it is up to you to decide...do your homework and make your path.