How much ESTROGEN is necassary to build muscle

[MrCyp]

Is there any evidence proving that you need estrogen to build muscle. Im wondering b/c im on a cycle now, growing and using 12.5mg aromasin ED and estro for me is supposed to be between 0-52 or <52 Mine came back at 46 Now i'd presume this would be good for building muscle right? do you want it in range but in the higher end? Or lets say I used more aromasin and got it down to the 20's or so. Would that make a diff? Im mainly wondering how necassary estrogen is in building muscle.

 

[Macro]

Is there any evidence proving that you need estrogen to build muscle. Im wondering b/c im on a cycle now, growing and using 12.5mg aromasin ED and estro for me is supposed to be between 0-52 or <52 Mine came back at 46 Now i'd presume this would be good for building muscle right? do you want it in range but in the higher end? Or lets say I used more aromasin and got it down to the 20's or so. Would that make a diff? Im mainly wondering how necassary estrogen is in building muscle.

some estrogen may be necessary for anabolism, however it is a very small amount. there is no reason other than the benefits of bloat and fat gain to allow estrogen levels to "float" high.

there are adaptive measures, since males with aromatase deficiency are still very muscular (ARKO is a rare condition), so even basically no "estrogen" does not limit anabolism significantly (one would venture that 3-beta diol among other metabolites are adaptive factors.) note their test has been found at the 2-3k range and growth is also sky high.

 

[MrCyp]

I wonder why there has been so much talk about too much anti-e's killing gains and people recommending not using an anti-e if you dont get estro signs. I always thought estro was very important for building muscle.

 

[Macro]

I wonder why there has been so much talk about too much anti-e's killing gains and people recommending not using an anti-e if you dont get estro signs. I always thought estro was very important for building muscle.

the same people that came up with that also said that m1t, superdrol and other 5 androstanes COULD NOT cause gyno, much to the chagrin of those that listened. They are also common beleivers in tamoxifen as superior PCT (llewelyn and others promoted this- believe he has reversed or at least tempered his position), and they tend to believe that if you suppress estrogen you cant get or flare gyno-- sadly another inccorrect piece of dogma, they also tend to discount the impact of prolactin (or argue-- wrongly-- that suppressing estrogen will suppress prolactin).... etc... etc...

 

[RalphMalph]

My theory on the over-hype of the value of E is that people don't see weight go up as fast (yet its likely a large % fat & water the difference).

Personally on one anti-e 10-12 years ago, it was causing me a little nausea. obviously that had some effect as eating was hard work. But I will still hypothesize water/fat and then psychological effects of not seeing the huge weight peak you saw with no anti-e is twisting some perception on the magnitude?

 

[datamon]

for libido, estrogen has to be in the right range. too high no good, too low no good.

not sure about muscle building though...except for one muscle

 

[stinkpelt]

for libido, estrogen has to be in the right range. too high no good, too low no good.

not sure about muscle building though...except for one muscle

So.....If I have been experiencing raging hard-ons while on cycle ALL DAY LONG and constantly lusting over just about every woman I see than my estrogen level is probably in the correct range? Seriously, is libido a good indication of proper estrogen levels? I have been on cycle for about 2.5 months now and every now and then (3 times in the last 2.5 months) I get an itchy feeling in my right nipple. It may be my shirt just rubbing up against it or just paranoia but when this happens, I just take 20mg tamoxifen and 12.5mg aromasin and it goes away in a couple of hours. I don't seem to hold too much water but I definitely weigh a couple of pounds or so lighter a day after taking anti-e.

 

[MrCyp]

So.....If I have been experiencing raging hard-ons while on cycle ALL DAY LONG and constantly lusting over just about every woman I see than my estrogen level is probably in the correct range? Seriously, is libido a good indication of proper estrogen levels? I have been on cycle for about 2.5 months now and every now and then (3 times in the last 2.5 months) I get an itchy feeling in my right nipple. It may be my shirt just rubbing up against it or just paranoia but when this happens, I just take 20mg tamoxifen and 12.5mg aromasin and it goes away in a couple of hours. I don't seem to hold too much water but I definitely weigh a couple of pounds or so lighter a day after taking anti-e.

Libido is not a good indicator. I was on 12.5mg Aromasin ED when on 250mg test and the same when on 750mg test and libido was the same. Only bloodwork will tell you where your estrogen is at.

 

[Macro]

Libido is not a good indicator. I was on 12.5mg Aromasin ED when on 250mg test and the same when on 750mg test and libido was the same. Only bloodwork will tell you where your estrogen is at.

well.. there are indicators as to when it too low or high, but agree that bloodwork is always a good idea. Particularly since insulin and prolactin can cause many of the same sides (among other hormones).

 

[MrCyp]

I upd my dose from 12.5mg to 25mg the past 5days or so. Nips have gotten a little less sensative and everything else seems the same. Dropped some water and I have noticed I have more endurance for some reason.