HYPERTROPHY: best training, number of sets and reps

[brutus69]

weight can be from 30 percent max to 90 percent one rep max and as long as u go hard, to failure or within 1-2 reps of, muscle gain will be the same.
10 years, 15-18 studies all proved it.
tut doesnt matter, rep speed doesnt matter. its the number of times u go to, or close to, failure. mind/muscle connection doesnt matter either. all this shits been studied over and over.
stonger by science has all the studies and the guys who go thru them in minute detail.
but that's just science and i know what u think/feel/believe is more truth than facts are.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/master-list/

 

[jeroendebleser]

You just have to be honest with yourself. Adhere to the same rep cadence and rest periods. Deviate from either and, yeah, you'll shortchange yourself.

Even then.

 

[LATS]

weight can be from 30 percent max to 90 percent one rep max and as long as u go hard, to failure or within 1-2 reps of, muscle gain will be the same.
10 years, 15-18 studies all proved it.
tut doesnt matter, rep speed doesnt matter. its the number of times u go to, or close to, failure. mind/muscle connection doesnt matter either. all this shits been studied over and over.
stonger by science has all the studies and the guys who go thru them in minute detail.
but that's just science and i know what u think/feel/believe is more truth than facts are.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/master-list/

I agree with much of what your saying... Rep range is arbitrary to a extent.. It's effort and failure that count... But training with short time under tension 10 seconds or below for example DOESNT elicite near the hypertrophic response as a longer time under tension... There are studies that also show that.. So for studies that show it doesn't matter there are studies that show it does matter.. Pouliquin cites these studies many times along with other strength coaches.. Scott Stevenson also has these studies showing this in his books..

That being said many of these studies are done from a strength increase as a gauge... We, as people who are mainly concerned about development, have to be conscience of mind/ muscle connection... As a example when I owned my gyms I saw numerous members greatly Increase their strength in the bench press .. But they had poor pec development.. But their anterior delts and triceps grew ... They got stronger in the movement but did so using a path or technique that overloaded the delts and triceps.. These guys wanted pecs.. But they had no idea how to engauge their pecs.. Once we worked with them about keeping their shoukders retracted and chest high throughout the movement their pecs got much thicker.. Same with squats.. Many get a large glute involvement while their quads suffered.. But according to many of these studies it was a " success" because they were able to increase their lifts ... So as bodybuilders or arm chair bodybuilders that ISNT what we want.. So being able to engage the appropriate muscles ( mind muscle connection) is extremely important..

At one time I had a very strong bench... I could bang out quite a bit when using explosive cadence.. The next day my anterior delts and triceps were sore.. Pecs? NOPE.. But if I lightened the load and concentrated on shoukders back and slower cadence my pecs woukd take the brunt and Id feel it immediately.. So, again, I agree with the studies and find most of them interesting and just confirming what many have known for decades.. But when applying them to physique development we have to find ways to engage the muscles we are after and not just move weight through a range of motion.. There is a difference between training the MOVEMENT and training the MUSCLE ..

 

[danieltx]

Great post LATS.

The biggest mistake you see in gyms is people training movements, not muscles - they never figure this out and wonder why they never really look how they thought they'd look from working out.

 

[n3mo0101]

I agree with much of what your saying... Rep range is arbitrary to a extent.. It's effort and failure that count... But training with short time under tension 10 seconds or below for example DOESNT elicite near the hypertrophic response as a longer time under tension... There are studies that also show that.. So for studies that show it doesn't matter there are studies that show it does matter.. Pouliquin cites these studies many times along with other strength coaches.. Scott Stevenson also has these studies showing this in his books..

That being said many of these studies are done from a strength increase as a gauge... We, as people who are mainly concerned about development, have to be conscience of mind/ muscle connection... As a example when I owned my gyms I saw numerous members greatly Increase their strength in the bench press .. But they had poor pec development.. But their anterior delts and triceps grew ... They got stronger in the movement but did so using a path or technique that overloaded the delts and triceps.. These guys wanted pecs.. But they had no idea how to engauge their pecs.. Once we worked with them about keeping their shoukders retracted and chest high throughout the movement their pecs got much thicker.. Same with squats.. Many get a large glute involvement while their quads suffered.. But according to many of these studies it was a " success" because they were able to increase their lifts ... So as bodybuilders or arm chair bodybuilders that ISNT what we want.. So being able to engage the appropriate muscles ( mind muscle connection) is extremely important..

At one time I had a very strong bench... I could bang out quite a bit when using explosive cadence.. The next day my anterior delts and triceps were sore.. Pecs? NOPE.. But if I lightened the load and concentrated on shoukders back and slower cadence my pecs woukd take the brunt and Id feel it immediately.. So, again, I agree with the studies and find most of them interesting and just confirming what many have known for decades.. But when applying them to physique development we have to find ways to engage the muscles we are after and not just move weight through a range of motion.. There is a difference between training the MOVEMENT and training the MUSCLE ..

Exactly, I like to think of it like this when referencing squats and what you're trying to achieve:

Are you using muscles as tools to train a squat (powerlifting), or are you using a squat as a tool to train specific muscles (bodybuilding)?

 

[xpoc]

I would like to hear your thoughts on this recent study (cited in the article):

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-real-driver-of-muscle-growth

This essentially says that, all things equal, LESS volume trumps more volume. People who trained to failure and did 5 sets (per week) per muscle group gained more muscle than those who did 15 or 20 sets. Those who did 15-20 sets still made gains, so they were not overtrained...but they made significantly less gains than those who did fewer sets. WOW.

 

[OutToLunch]

https://youtu.be/STiUyA6TfRY

 

[OutToLunch]

https://youtu.be/IgGwA5Jm-Ig

 

[TheOne24]

Great video


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Creation]

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-real-driver-of-muscle-growth

All groups showed significant increases in all muscle thickness measurements and 10-rep max tests.

There were no differences in any 10-rep max tests between the 5 and 10 set groups.

The 5 and 10 set groups showed significantly greater 10-rep max increases for lat pulldowns, leg presses, and stiff-legged deadlifts than the 15-set group.

For the bench press, the results from the 5, 10, and 15 set groups didn't differ significantly, but the 20-set group tested out the worst. In fact, 10-rep max changes for the 20-set group were lower than all other groups for all exercises.

As for muscle thickness improvement, as you might expect, it correlated with the strength gains. The 5 and 10 set groups showed significantly greater increases than the 15 and 20 set groups in all measured sites.

Muscle thickness increased more in the 15 set group than the 20 set group in all sites. The increases in the 5-set group were higher than the 10 set group for the pecs, whereas the 10-set group showed higher increases in quadriceps muscle thickness than the 5-set group.

 

[xpoc]

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-real-driver-of-muscle-growth

All groups showed significant increases in all muscle thickness measurements and 10-rep max tests.

There were no differences in any 10-rep max tests between the 5 and 10 set groups.

The 5 and 10 set groups showed significantly greater 10-rep max increases for lat pulldowns, leg presses, and stiff-legged deadlifts than the 15-set group.

For the bench press, the results from the 5, 10, and 15 set groups didn't differ significantly, but the 20-set group tested out the worst. In fact, 10-rep max changes for the 20-set group were lower than all other groups for all exercises.

As for muscle thickness improvement, as you might expect, it correlated with the strength gains. The 5 and 10 set groups showed significantly greater increases than the 15 and 20 set groups in all measured sites.

Muscle thickness increased more in the 15 set group than the 20 set group in all sites. The increases in the 5-set group were higher than the 10 set group for the pecs, whereas the 10-set group showed higher increases in quadriceps muscle thickness than the 5-set group.

I cannot figure that one out. Why does someone get more muscle doing 5 sets of chest per week vs 10 sets? 10 set person still made gains so she was not overtrained...but the lower volume appears to be more optimal.

 

[maldorf]

I think you can still grow when you over train, it depends on the degree of overtraining. Growth and overtraining don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Dog-Slime]

Power lifters are low rep high sets max weight . Some are PRETTY big, bodybuilders do high weight decent reps decent sets and are REALLY big, CrossFit people do low weight high volume Med size. All 3 may train to failure but still wind up with differences in muscle mass. Study makes sense to me, can’t explain the reasoning but matches what I’ve seen

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

You rotate the excersise? One of the best powerlifters of here (argentina) recommend this style all the year

Here's how I do my rep ranges.

1st set 16 reps.
2nd set 12 reps.
3rd set 6-10 reps.
Drop set as many reps as I can.

The weight goes up each set then of course drops down on the drop set. The drop set is done immediately after the third set. I train full body so only do 1 exercise per muscle group.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

As I have been told many times, there is not a single variable that makes us grow. There is optimal nutrition, the amount of drugs that one consumes (quality too) and something that analyzes and is incredible as a starting point is GENETICS, I train with a boy who has no strength, I surpass him in all the exercises and that is not I am a very strong guy BUT he has the best arms and shoulders I saw, he does not consume steroids and he eats as he can, his legs are weak, his chest is normal but his arms are bigger than people who have been on steroids for years ...

Power lifters are low rep high sets max weight . Some are PRETTY big, bodybuilders do high weight decent reps decent sets and are REALLY big, CrossFit people do low weight high volume Med size. All 3 may train to failure but still wind up with differences in muscle mass. Study makes sense to me, can’t explain the reasoning but matches what I’ve seen

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

John Meadows is one of the guys that I like, but in this video I feel that there is something I do not like. John in his routines makes approximate sets and counts them as sets the closer he gets to the fault, I think those series do fatigue. I like more the inverse pyramid style, and when the weight is going up in the approach I do as much as 3 reps or singles.

https://youtu.be/IgGwA5Jm-Ig

 

[digbick]

moderate to high volume,high intensity is best to make you grow while keeping you relatively lean....

most people just dont do enough intensity or too much intensity,best is take your 70-75% max and work from there..

 

[flex22]

I counted reps for years and years and then had a wake up call when I seen how long I really was u see tension. So now my method is either slow negatives with and explosive push or jus straight up high high rep sets like 25+ reps just to push as much blood into the muscle as possible. All lessons I learned from reading the fortitude training book. I can jus reread it time and time
Again and always pull out new
Info I either overlooked or didn’t u sweats d when I first read it

 

[FK86]

12-20 SS
20-30 RP

 

[andishehhank]

I used math in the past to decipher rep ranges for example.

1s
2s
3s and 4s
5s and 6s
7-20 reps
21-100 reps
101-1000 reps...
etc.

I came up with this scale some years ago back in college when I was getting serious with bodybuilding. If you divide the number 1 by any number, you get the percentage that each rep constitutes in each set, assuming our unit is reps here. One rep in a one rep max is 1/1 or 100 percent of the set. A rep in a double is 1/2 or 50 percent of the set. By using this formula, a rep in a set of 3 or 4 rounds out to 30 percent of the set, 20 percent for a set of 5 or 6, and 10 percent in a set of 7-20. Since there is an infinite number of reps we can theoretically perform, it is clearly the beginning of a really high rep range starting at 21 reps, as 7-20 reps is the last practical rep range for a human being. Sure, we could do 70 or 200 reps on a lift but with the concept of ad infinitum we would ask then why not more and more? Hence we would come to our senses and see that after 20 reps we are starting to enter really high reps that never end. So according to this reasoning, it is concluded that 7-20 reps is as moderate as it gets for bodybuilder. Going back to the percentages, we saw that each rep in a set of 7-20 reps rounded out to about 10 percent of the set, so I usually do 10 reps per set because it is the number where each rep is exactly 10 percent of each set. This describes a weight that is not too heavy nor too light, and we know it will provide a training effect accordingly.

As for volume my experience is all anecdotal, I have made fast gains on training a muscle group for about 45 minutes once per week, so that's what I usually do. I did do DC training 2 years ago, and I noticed the muscles that got hit more with overlapping exercises grew more, as well.

-Andy