If insulin is the most anabolic hormone in existence...

[warrior504th]

Then why do people swear it is so worthless without AAS or GH? I understand the whole "it will make you fat (especially if you eat fat in your macros during its active life)" argument, but calories and IUs can be controlled. So beyond that, what are the checks-and-balances, or what exactly is insulin stopping or blunting that prevents you from gaining substantial weight on insulin without AAS or GH?

Interested in any serious input. Not interested in parroting of old 'accepted norms'.

Thanks

PS: I know its risky. I know I could die or wind up diabetic, etc.

 

[plang]

High GH levels plus insulin will increae igf-1......insulin helps sensitize gh receptors

Several studies have shown gh is fairly benign for muscle growth on it's own...but when gh and testosterone are combined igf and mgf levels increase more so than either in it's own....ie synergy...

So if gh and insulin is 1 + 1 = 3 and testosterone and gh is 1 + 1 = 3....gh + test + insulin= 5

Not trying to bog down with studies...but I can if needed

 

[warrior504th]

High GH levels plus insulin will increae igf-1......insulin helps sensitize gh receptors

Several studies have shown gh is fairly benign for muscle growth on it's own...but when gh and testosterone are combined igf and mgf levels increase more so than either in it's own....ie synergy...

So if gh and insulin is 1 + 1 = 3 and testosterone and gh is 1 + 1 = 3....gh + test + insulin= 5

Not trying to bog down with studies...but I can if needed

I absolutely believe you, but I wouldnt mind the links for later browsing. If you have to dig then dont worry about it, I've seen bits and pieces linked in previous threads that I can go back to.

Beyond the synergy, people seem to believe or at least state that insulin is almost worthless alone. Do you know what would NEGATE positive effects of something as anabolic as insulin? I mean, I know that test works great alone, and insulin is far more anabolic, so what restricts it? Or is this just the spreading of ignorance? I suppose that was my main question. people rave about how great it is stacked, but then talk about how worthless it is alone... which doesnt make sense to me.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Plang is right on the money with this imo. He's coming from a research standpoint I'm guessing. But, I can tell you from experience, insulin (short acting, the same way I use it when I use it with a steroid cycle) doesn't do much on its own! I can't explain why. All I know is that I can take 10 iu humalog pre workout with dextrose, bcaas, creatine etc. when I'm using testosterone (and whatever else) and gain 25-30% more mass, add more strength etc. than when just using steroids alone. So, say I usually gain 15 total lbs of bodyweight (fat, water and muscle) when doing a cycle, I'll gain 20 lbs if I throw in insulin like that- consistently. But, if I try to use insulin during pct, after the esters have cleared, I see no additional gains, I lose strength as normal etc. Same thing if I try it alone if I haven't cycled in awhile. It just doesn't do much on its own for me. Again, I can't explain it at all. I just know that's how it works for me. Others have claimed good gains from it on its own.

You may see a bit more from slin, a sarm, and GH used off cycle. I don't, but someone else may! Seems I need a good high dose of test to see much from slin personally.

 

[warrior504th]

Plang is right on the money with this imo. He's coming from a research standpoint I'm guessing. But, I can tell you from experience, insulin (short acting, the same way I use it when I use it with a steroid cycle) doesn't do much on its own! I can't explain why. All I know is that I can take 10 iu humalog pre workout with dextrose, bcaas, creatine etc. when I'm using testosterone (and whatever else) and gain 25-30% more mass, add more strength etc. than when just using steroids alone. So, say I usually gain 15 total lbs of bodyweight (fat, water and muscle) when doing a cycle, I'll gain 20 lbs if I throw in insulin like that- consistently. But, if I try to use insulin during pct, after the esters have cleared, I see no additional gains, I lose strength as normal etc. Same thing if I try it alone if I haven't cycled in awhile. It just doesn't do much on its own for me. Again, I can't explain it at all. I just know that's how it works for me. Others have claimed good gains from it on its own.

You may see a bit more from slin, a sarm, and GH used off cycle. I don't, but someone else may! Seems I need a good high dose of test to see much from slin personally.

Fair enough! I guess this is something I will have to learn for myself, but I wont be holding my breath. Thanks ChemicalWarrior!

A bit off thread topic, but I am not a believer in making a bunch of threads.

With Humulin-R I see active life suggestions ranging from 5 hours to 8 hours. Most of the 8 hour recommendations appear to be based on the manufacturer's statement which may be FAR on the generous side (to avoid a death lawsuit). however, I'd rather not die finding out.

Do you guys happen to know how long it is actually active? at 5-6 hours I could go to bed at a decent hour. At 8 hours, I'm going to have to be up WAY too late to use it post-workout.

 

[plang]

Shoot IM or switch to humalog....using both at different times I actually prefer humulin for my bodytype....IM humulin and ur good probably 4 hours later to be safe

 

[warrior504th]

Shoot IM or switch to humalog....using both at different times I actually prefer humulin for my bodytype....IM humulin and ur good probably 4 hours later to be safe

Awesome man thank you again. Heard IM is very unpredictable, and can spike at odd times. Sent you a PM with some questions regarding IM insulin. Really appreciate your time!

 

[1Rhino1]

I have been talking to a buddy who is real experienced with every chemical you can think of short besides hgh.

The biggest thing that hinders gains while off of a cycle is the fact your not synthesizing protein like you were while on cycle. Insulin shuttles nutrients.... what it does has been described as actually packing those nutrients into that muscle and making an environment better suited for muscle growth. But you cant make use of all that extra protein and carbs like you could before. So now you are gonna be storing it instead of actually putting it to use.

I honestly believe that you can put on muscle mass without the use of aas and insulin, but I think that you will end up packing on so much fat that it wont be worth it.

I may be wrong, but it really sounds good.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

I always heard that IM insulin was more "steady" supply and quicker. I always do my humalog shots IM these days and found that it is more predictable that way vs. subQ. For close to a year I did subQ and would have odd peaks and valleys in blood sugar (judging by energy, cold sweats etc.). But, with IM I time it to no more than 15 min pre-workout and keep my shake by my side and sip on it and I'm g2g. I'm guessing with humalin-r you'd want to take it a half hour before training possibly? I'm not sure. But, will try humulin-r next. A bottle of slin lasts a damn long time when only used on cycle and 3 x week!

 

[warrior504th]

I always heard that IM insulin was more "steady" supply and quicker. I always do my humalog shots IM these days and found that it is more predictable that way vs. subQ. For close to a year I did subQ and would have odd peaks and valleys in blood sugar (judging by energy, cold sweats etc.). But, with IM I time it to no more than 15 min pre-workout and keep my shake by my side and sip on it and I'm g2g. I'm guessing with humalin-r you'd want to take it a half hour before training possibly? I'm not sure. But, will try humulin-r next. A bottle of slin lasts a damn long time when only used on cycle and 3 x week!

Awesome, I look forward to hearing about your humulin-r experiences!

I will definitely give IM Hum-R a try when the occasion calls for it. Going to start with 1 IU and move up nice and slow. When (or if) I run into a problem, I'd prefer it not be at 5+ IUs.

By the way, I'm going to sub up to your Blog and read it when I have time.

 

[DBOYY]

this was an informative tread, especially thankful for CM's input.....gonna be going this route very soon....doing my glucose readings for a wk first to get a good log of where i should be....

 

[warrior504th]

this was an informative tread, especially thankful for CM's input.....gonna be going this route very soon....doing my glucose readings for a wk first to get a good log of where i should be....

Keep them up (weekly glucose readings) pre-slin 10 minutes after waking on an empty stomach. I've been told by some people far more knowledgeable than I that an upward trend of morning glucose without slin is a sign that you should take a break.

And of course, make sure you do your further reading on safe practices.

 

[plang]

Keep them up (weekly glucose readings) pre-slin 10 minutes after waking on an empty stomach. I've been told by some people far more knowledgeable than I that an upward trend of morning glucose without slin is a sign that you should take a break.

And of course, make sure you do your further reading on safe practices.

Very good point....something most people don't realize the importance of...

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Awesome, I look forward to hearing about your humulin-r experiences!

I will definitely give IM Hum-R a try when the occasion calls for it. Going to start with 1 IU and move up nice and slow. When (or if) I run into a problem, I'd prefer it not be at 5+ IUs.

By the way, I'm going to sub up to your Blog and read it when I have time.

I like your approach! I'm a stickler for safety with this stuff, believe it or not, myself.

this was an informative tread, especially thankful for CM's input.....gonna be going this route very soon....doing my glucose readings for a wk first to get a good log of where i should be....

Thanks man. And thanks for your support on another forum! Much appreciated.

Keep them up (weekly glucose readings) pre-slin 10 minutes after waking on an empty stomach. I've been told by some people far more knowledgeable than I that an upward trend of morning glucose without slin is a sign that you should take a break.

And of course, make sure you do your further reading on safe practices.

Good info. This may help answer my question I asked about lr3 in another thread. Thanks!

 

[alphamale1]

chem warrior and plang you dudes are a god-send to PM..your knowledge and exp allows us make informative decisions, which are vital when it comes to AAS and other gear....one of the reasons I totally respect and love this board:headbang:

 

[the student]

I tried Humalin R by itself and put on five pounds of pure fat in a month, but with a recless diet. No strength or muscle gains. I've recently used it a few times at the beginning of my workout, while on test, and have great pumps. When I awake the next morning, I am still kinda pumped. Very full looking. That's awesome to see first thing in the morning while brushing teeth. That just seems like a positive thing, more blood in the muscle over the course of the entire night.

 

[DBOYY]

I like your approach! I'm a stickler for safety with this stuff, believe it or not, myself.



Thanks man. And thanks for your support on another forum! Much appreciated.



Good info. This may help answer my question I asked about lr3 in another thread. Thanks!

no problem CM, and thanks warrior, that is good to know, will watch that closely.....knowledge is power .......thanks guys

 

[keepushin770]

its not that big a deal. insulin IMO

 

[warrior504th]

Thanks again everyone for your input.

Plang, I stumbled on one of your article postings on another forum regarding a certain concept with insulin use pre-workout and after some further careful planning and experimentation, I will be trying it out. Sounds damn good in theory. Makes total sense.

Unfortunately I will be avoiding the AAS initially, but I've ordered some necessary shake ingredients which should be here next week! :headbang:

 

[warrior504th]

To any beginners considering insulin use and coming across this thread...

I am assuming you know the inherent great risk (which includes death) of using insulin without being fully aware of the function...

So assuming that, I wanted to share my first finding. I have started with a dose if 1 IU post-workout in which I've searched out my first symptoms of lowering blood sugar.

My ever-so-slight, not-very-risky signs of early drops in sugar to potential hypoglycemia are as follows (things you should perhaps be aware of to spot it early, before you pass out, go into a coma and die)...

This is by no means a complete list. These are just the very first signs at a lower dose.

I feel suddenly woozy in the head. Not dizzy. Not lightheaded. The faintest beginnings of becoming lightheaded. Almost literal. As if my head weighed slightly less.

Suddenly it was a little harder to focus my eyes. It is almost as if i'm unintentionally looking at a wider area. Example: I'm looking at my computer screen... But, no matter how hard I focus, I still cant help but see the picture above my computer. the candle to the left. the notepad to the right. Whereas normally i tune these things out both mentally and visually.

Best of luck, be safe.