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Igf1 BP3 testing results? Need help

Cv215

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I got labwork results back.
My igf1 is 427 ng/ml range (95-290)
Igf1 BP3 is 2613 ug/L range (2610-5977)

Ive never tested igfbp3 before so im not very familiar with the results.

From what i read they mimic each other so if one is low the other should be low. Low IGFBP-3 and IGF-1 levels are observed in GH deficiency or GH resistance.

Im wondering how i can have supraphysiological levels of igf1 and then barely be in the normal range for bp3. Does this mean I'm basically becoming resistant to the hgh?

5ius/ split twice/day
 

Cv215

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It does say high igfbp3 levels are seen in patients with excessive hgh therapy. Maybe on the flip side my buddy doesn't consider it to be excessive? Lol i dont know.
 

nothuman

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Maybe try to get in touch with this guy. He mentions IGF-BP3 and does say you want it to go up if your IGF is going up. I am not sure why it wouldn't

 

Cv215

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I just wonder if taking hgh for a while, especially generics or something, can cause you to start becoming resistant or something.
Its especially tough because ive seen hundreds and hundreds of lab results from members hgh testing over the years, however, ive only seen one other person that testing igfbp3, so its hard to compare the results to anything. Who knows this could be normal. We just don't see anyone test this but apparently its actually pretty important.

Its like testing igf1 by itself is only a small peice of the picture.

I mean i wouldnt take it if i didn't feel like it was working. Id definitely wrather be on it than not be on it, because there is a noticeable difference.
 

Cv215

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It also could mean i have a lot of free igf1 floating around not necessarily doing anything, that's kind of a guess of mine.
 

MyNameIsJeff

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Couple of things:

- IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels tend to move together, so your results are indeed unusual.

- GH resistance is only indicated if both IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels are low. Given your high IGF-1 levels, I would not be concerned about being GH resistant.

- There are 7 different IGF binding proteins. They all bind IGF-1 (and IGF-2) and their principal role is to extend the half-life of the IGFs, although they do have other functions as well. The ratio of these different IGFBPs can differ based on many factors, and usually a decrease in one IGFBP is compensated by increases in the others. Indeed, experiments in animals show that when IGFBP-3 is knocked out, there do not appear to be any detrimental effects. Only if several IGFBPs are knocked out do we observe abnormalities (see https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2018.00117/full for an excellent review of IGFBPs). In your case, it seems likely that there is a sufficient amount of IGFBPs since otherwise, the half-life of the IGF-1 that your liver produces would be so low that steady-state serum levels of IGF-1 would not be elevated.

-It is possible that some of the meds you take change the ratio of IGFBPs, I'm not aware of any studies on this though. As you mentioned, IGFBP-3 is rarely included in blood work, so we do not know too much about how it reacts to bodybuilding drugs either. It's also possible that the lab's measurement is off.

TLDR: As long as IGF-1 serum levels are good, there is no reason to fret over IGFBPs.
 

Cv215

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Couple of things:

- IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels tend to move together, so your results are indeed unusual.

- GH resistance is only indicated if both IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels are low. Given your high IGF-1 levels, I would not be concerned about being GH resistant.

- There are 7 different IGF binding proteins. They all bind IGF-1 (and IGF-2) and their principal role is to extend the half-life of the IGFs, although they do have other functions as well. The ratio of these different IGFBPs can differ based on many factors, and usually a decrease in one IGFBP is compensated by increases in the others. Indeed, experiments in animals show that when IGFBP-3 is knocked out, there do not appear to be any detrimental effects. Only if several IGFBPs are knocked out do we observe abnormalities (see https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2018.00117/full for an excellent review of IGFBPs). In your case, it seems likely that there is a sufficient amount of IGFBPs since otherwise, the half-life of the IGF-1 that your liver produces would be so low that steady-state serum levels of IGF-1 would not be elevated.

-It is possible that some of the meds you take change the ratio of IGFBPs, I'm not aware of any studies on this though. As you mentioned, IGFBP-3 is rarely included in blood work, so we do not know too much about how it reacts to bodybuilding drugs either. It's also possible that the lab's measurement is off.

TLDR: As long as IGF-1 serum levels are good, there is no reason to fret over IGFBPs.
I genuinely really appreciate your response. I think i might try experimenting a little to see if anything changes the bp3 scores.

Something interesting to note. I've tested my igf1 while on a number of different dosages (same protocal though) and usually while on the same product.

On 3.5ius/day my igf1 tested at 447 once. On 6 or 7 ius/day my igf1 has tested at 457.

My most recent is on 5 ius a day and i tested at 427.

On 5ius i also tested at 235 once. (kind of questioned the product that time though)

Ive never really tried going over 6-7 ius a day, but if i did, i have a feeling my igf might not continue to go up much. Maybe thats just all my body wants to produce while on hgh.

What I'm wondering is if maybe i drop the dose back down to around 3 ius i will still keep the same elevated IGF-1 that i have now, however, maybe BP3 will increase as well for whever reason?

When you look at some of my scores im always right around the mid 400s regardless of what the dose seems to be.
 

Cv215

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This is interesting.


 

Cv215

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Also since i have a pretty good amount of testing done while using generics. I'm really tempted to get at least a month or two worth of saizen or serostim and use that and see how igf results compare.
 

madg

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i am friends with an EU ifbb pro and he always testing igfbp-3

Let me ask him for you and get back

I was always curious why he does it , he is the only guy i know who tests this
 

Cv215

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i am friends with an EU ifbb pro and he always testing igfbp-3

Let me ask him for you and get back

I was always curious why he does it , he is the only guy i know who tests this
Thanks!
 

Cv215

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I just wanted to update this. So a few posts above i posted this study that links low igfbp3 to overtraining. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/9/604

I really think theres a good chance this is what it could be. I love training hard and heavy and even when i know I'm past the point of overtraining my brain will try to produce some other logic why i should ignore it and keep going hard.

I can really only ignore it for so long before my body makes me chill out. Ive been progressive overloading for about the last 9-10 weeks (and for a while i was getting stronger literally every workout) Right now I'm experiencing literally all the signs of over training. My strength and stamina in the gym is going backwards. The thing that irritates me the most is the decline in my physique. 3-4 weeks ago i was looking full and big. My diet has not changed whatsoever but im noticing myself flattening out and looking just fatter and not as good. Fuck. My sleep sucks, i am super groggy every morning. Everything aches and i am just generally starting to feel like shit.

SO!.. Im going to take a real deload week. Not a make believe deload week. I'm going to go in an work with like 50% volume and 50% of my normal weights.

I just ordered another bp3 test. At the end of my deload week I'm going to take days off completely and then go and retest and see if my scores change significantly. I really think they will. I think like that study indicates low bp3 can have a big correlation with being in an overtrained state. Im going to keep all other variables, like gear and food the same. Will update after i have the results.
 

nothuman

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I just wanted to update this. So a few posts above i posted this study that links low igfbp3 to overtraining. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/9/604

I really think theres a good chance this is what it could be. I love training hard and heavy and even when i know I'm past the point of overtraining my brain will try to produce some other logic why i should ignore it and keep going hard.

I can really only ignore it for so long before my body makes me chill out. Ive been progressive overloading for about the last 9-10 weeks (and for a while i was getting stronger literally every workout) Right now I'm experiencing literally all the signs of over training. My strength and stamina in the gym is going backwards. The thing that irritates me the most is the decline in my physique. 3-4 weeks ago i was looking full and big. My diet has not changed whatsoever but im noticing myself flattening out and looking just fatter and not as good. Fuck. My sleep sucks, i am super groggy every morning. Everything aches and i am just generally starting to feel like shit.

SO!.. Im going to take a real deload week. Not a make believe deload week. I'm going to go in an work with like 50% volume and 50% of my normal weights.

I just ordered another bp3 test. At the end of my deload week I'm going to take days off completely and then go and retest and see if my scores change significantly. I really think they will. I think like that study indicates low bp3 can have a big correlation with being in an overtrained state. Im going to keep all other variables, like gear and food the same. Will update after i have the results.
Thanks for this update. I didn't know it could go down from overtraining either. It's hard to find info on igfbp3 online that is relevant and easy to understand.
 

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