Important HPTA and HCG question

[Lobo99]

Hello, I have some doubt about HCG and HPTA someone kindly can help me with these doubts? Now I try to explain.

What I know is that HCG mimics leutenizing hormone (LH). LH stimulates the Leydig cells in the testicles to produce testosterone. This action also causes the testicles to return to normal size and function if they were suppressed due to exogenous testosterone.

There is a problem, HCG at high doses or for long periods down-regulate and/or desensitize Leydig cell receptors to LH so when you stop HCG your testicles will atrophize again. The question is: is this true and if yes, how can we avoid this? What dosages and times should be followed?

Second, when you are on AAS or TRT your hypothalamus stops producing GnRH, → your pituitary stops producing LH and FSH, → Leydig cells stop producing Testosterone and sertoli cells stop producing sperm → your testicles atrophy.

When I use SERMs in PCT the pituitary gland restarts LH and FSH production and this should induce the testicles to restart testosterone and sperm production as before. The question is: Do the testicles after an AAS cycle respond to the LH / FSH that are reproduced by the pituitary gland as before the cycle and slowly resume their previous sizes and functionality or since they have become atrophied they have become less sensitive to LH/FSH and to bring them back to size and functionality before the cycle, should HCG be used and then SERM used for a period to maintain the sensitivity and dimensions/functionality obtained from HCG?

Thank you very much to all those who will answer my questions.

 

[Lobo99]

Any opinions?

 

[Kaladryn]

What makes the hypothalamus produce GNRH? a lack of estradiol (negative feedback). This is the missing component in your understanding I think, besides that you have it all right on.

Now does producing testosterone make your balls bigger? Or is it sperm production that makes them bigger? Probably sperm, so not LH, but FSH is what you ultimately want.

What makes GNRH produce LH vs FSH? Pulsatile GNRH production produces more FSH, steady-state GNRH production produces more LH.

Now throw out the word "restart" and just use the word "stimulate."

Now consider the half-life of HCG, it's long, so you are going to want to use it infrequently (1-3x per week) and in physiological amounts to prevent downregulation.

There is no reason to think HCG will upregulate leydig cells, it might prevent you from downregulating them, but it is very doubtful it will upregulate them very much, natty LH and FSH production is what should bring them back.

Anything that stimulates GNRH, LH, and/or Testosterone production is going to increase E2, which is going to shut down GNRH.

What is the ideal state for HPGA recovery? Low testosterone and Low Estradiol, this will maximally stimulate GNRH, LH, and FSH.

 

[Lobo99]

Thank you for your reply, I have understood some things.
Now, I have two questions for you.
During short cycles such as 6 weeks with non aromatizing steroids like DHT, what doses and times would you use of HCG to prevent any down-regulation or desensitization? I was thinking of 200IU x2 per week or 250IU 3x per week for the whole cycle.
Second, in PCT what would be better to stimulate GnRH and the production of FSH and LH as before and in theory bring the balls back to size? There are SERM like Nolvadex that are good but what do you think about GnRH agonists like Triptorelin or Gonadorelin?

 

[Lobo99]

Thank you for your reply, I have understood some things.
Now, I have two questions for you.

During short cycles such as 6 weeks with non aromatizing steroids like DHT, what doses and times would you use of HCG to prevent any down-regulation or desensitization? I was thinking of 200IU x2 per week or 250IU 3x per week for the whole cycle.

Second, in PCT what would be better to stimulate GnRH and the production of FSH and LH as before and in theory bring the balls back to size? There are SERM like Nolvadex that are good but what do you think about GnRH agonists like Triptorelin or Gonadorelin?

 

[Lobo99]

 

[Kaladryn]

Thank you for your reply, I have understood some things.
Now, I have two questions for you.
During short cycles such as 6 weeks with non aromatizing steroids like DHT, what doses and times would you use of HCG to prevent any down-regulation or desensitization? I was thinking of 200IU x2 per week or 250IU 3x per week for the whole cycle.
Second, in PCT what would be better to stimulate GnRH and the production of FSH and LH as before and in theory bring the balls back to size? There are SERM like Nolvadex that are good but what do you think about GnRH agonists like Triptorelin or Gonadorelin?

250iu to 500iu 2 or 3 times per week is pretty standard. There is a second feedback mechanism for GNRH based on androgens that will come into effect if you have supraphysiological levels, even if estradiol is low, I posted a study on it a while back.

Triptorelin looks very interesting but I don't know anything about it, although i've heard good things. Standard SERMS will temporarily stimuilate you but shut you down when you go off.

I personally think just getting everything out of your system and having low estradiol is the best bet.