Insulin Discussion (only people with PERSONAL EXPERIENCE)

[TooPowerful4u]

Let me start out by saying... if you have not used it, do not reply to this thread please. I am looking for experience. If you have used it yourself, but also someone you know has used it and discussed it with you or you advised them on it (Gavin you know im looking for your response here haha), then you can input that too.

I know Insulin is responsible for alot of the new mass monsters on the scene. Now lets speak on some issues regarding its use and side effects.

USE:
There are many many ways advised on taking it, but which one is most effective. I do not believe that certain people respond better to insulin, as is the case with AAS..... there are simply more effective ways to use it than others period.
Humalog vs. Humalin R. Log has a more powerful spike and is out of your system much quicker (dont have to monitor it as long... EASIER). R doesnt spike as powerful however it does spike twice and is longer sustained in the body. *IMO* it would be more beneficial to keep it longer sustained in the body, as the anabolic effects (along with lowering SHBG if combined with a test) would be the way to go. Would you prefer the stronger spike at the most opportune moments (AM and Post Workout) over the longer sustained effects?
EOD Dosing. Iv read more and more that this is becoming the more prefered method of choice. Why exactly does EOD dosing seem to be more effective than ED dosing if you cannot shut down your own natural production? Does the body build up a resistance and become less insulin sensative over time?
Multiple times per day vs. PWO only. There is also now multiple dosings per day, sometimes 3-4x per day. What is the benefit of having insulin levels high in the body all day long? I would think this would just lead to fat gain... once you have used slin to load up glycogen stores.. they cant get any FULLER than FULL. Maybe im missing something? PWO is the most opportune moment to load up glycogen and nutrient (BCAA, Creatine, Protein) transport and supersaturate your muscles. First thing in the AM i can also understand due to 8hrs with no food your body is craving it and catabolic. Why multiple dosings?

SIDE EFFECTS:
Debate on GH gut has been steered towards Insulin latly. Could be due to a number of things, including visceral fat. GH was around in the early 90's and nobody had guts, it didnt start until the slin was introduced and abused (Dorian was the first, and also the first to show signs of a gut). Since then, we are seeing alot of them. Thoughts on this?
Thickening of skin???? I have no clue the science behind this but it seems like insulin gives the appearance of thicker skin or LESS seperation between the muscles? Fat increasing in the crevices between the muscles killing seperation? Competitors who i personally know have used slin to a high degree (this is only speaking of people i KNOW of fairly well) seem to be softer than competitors that dont use it.


thoughts??????

 

[TooPowerful4u]

ok wheres all our vets at?

 

[TooPowerful4u]

tell me i went through all this trouble so nobody could give any input haha

 

[LATS]

HUMALOG.. IN AND OUT QUICKLY.. use post workout.. should have second spike 1 1/2 hours after inject.. then it starts to fade.. no need to use multiple injects through out the day.. (three days a week ect) no need to use on rest days ect.. should be used sparingly.. gavin might jump in here but, if he does not.. i have talked to him about this same subject and that is pretty much the deal..

 

[KillerStack]

GH was around in the early 90's and nobody had guts, it didnt start until the slin was introduced and abused (Dorian was the first, and also the first to show signs of a gut). Since then, we are seeing alot of them. Thoughts on this?

Duchaine said Dorian hated insulin, so I don't know if he was a heavy user (of insulin). Dan also said Dorian also didn't want to do the "large" dosages of GH the other pros were doing. I think Milos was using insulin heavily before the other pros. Interestingly, Milos never had a gut!

I've used insulin and seen a number of guys using it. They were doing 10-15iu 1-2 per day, or only PW. I didn't get ANY gains from it that I could see, neither did ANY of the guys I've observed. And they are quite numerous (bb competitors).
Dante said in a recent thread that some pros were using very large dosages several times a day to pack on mass, so maybe me and the one's I've observed didn't use enough to do much of anything.

After all, 10iu is a very physiological insulin dose, it's very easy to stimulate much higher insulin levels through food alone.

I'd like to hear if anyone here felt they were topped out physically and the insulin really put a lot of muscle on them. I mean above their previous lean weight. "Feeling a pump" is really useless as far as determining if you are growing. Remember the interview Milos did with Trevor Smith on insulin where Milos guaranteed 20lbs more of contest ready weight after a season of insulin use. Never seen anything close to that happening.

 

[GoneForever]

I personally feel the gut comes from over-eating.

 

[leapfrog]

insulin

i've used it a few times(i won't do gh without it) and i would do 4-6 iu's(humalin-r) right after i did my last set.then i would weight 15 to 20 min,then i would drink 40-60 grams(10 gram per iu) of carbs(i like ultrafuel)and whatever supps i was taking.the pro that explained it to me,said the insulin start eating up what little sugar you have left after a workout,he then explained that the muscles are basically pulling all they can to replinish.so when you drink the ultrafuel and the supps it's pulled right in.then you drink your post workout shake which is getting pulled straight in too.about an hour later you feel pretty wiped out because your glycogen has "flipped" is what he called it.then you will be ready to eat everything you'll be so hungry.

as for doing the insulin only after you train,and it doesn't take much.i would say try 4-8 and see what feels good to you.that 10-12 and 3x's a day goes right along with taking 2 grams a test a week.doing more drugs won't change knowing the basics train,eat,rest and more is not better.


leap

ps.i wasted alot of money on gh doing 4-5 iu's a day for 3 months and didn't notice shit.then someone who knows whats up,told me you won't see any of the results your looking expecting for 6 months.then he told me just do 2 iu's a day with slin and just stay on.when i did what he said a started seeing the results. HE ALSO TOLD ME NOT TO INJECT IN THE STOMACH,HE SAID HE DID IT OVER HIS KNEE SO THAT WHERE I DID TOO.

hopes this helps

HUMALOG.. IN AND OUT QUICKLY.. use post workout.. should have second spike 1 1/2 hours after inject.. then it starts to fade.. no need to use multiple injects through out the day.. (three days a week ect) no need to use on rest days ect.. should be used sparingly.. gavin might jump in here but, if he does not.. i have talked to him about this same subject and that is pretty much the deal..

 

[Eatbig2getbig]

Humalog and it works....period. Best way is on training days and PW. I have seen some use while off (as a bridge) everything else and maintain size. I don't want to debate the gut syndrome and less separation issue...I know some pros that use slin and have for years...and have not suffered these effects. In fact, I would argue that one of these pros has some of the best separation in the game and he definitely does not have a gut. The slin use alone though is not the magic bullet. It's everything else combined. Diet, training, and CONSISTENCY!

Magnum...you and I have different views here...(go ahead and let me have it brother..) LOL

 

[norm1220]

I have used all of the insulin protocols you have listed above and the one that worked the best for me while bulking was 10iu Humalog with each meal and then 20 iu post workout in the evening 3 times per week. The pumps are unreal, painful even. You feel like you could explode. I was averaging 7200 calories on slin days and 3500 calories the rest of the week. I have a very fast metabolism and I never would have hit 230 without the slin (and Gavin's advice on how to use it).

Down sides were feeling bloated all the time, being sleepy, and looking pregnant at the end of the day from all the food.

 

[IBBAdmin]

Let me start out by saying... if you have not used it, do not reply to this thread please. I am looking for experience. If you have used it yourself, but also someone you know has used it and discussed it with you or you advised them on it (Gavin you know im looking for your response here haha), then you can input that too.

I know Insulin is responsible for alot of the new mass monsters on the scene. Now lets speak on some issues regarding its use and side effects.

USE:
There are many many ways advised on taking it, but which one is most effective. I do not believe that certain people respond better to insulin, as is the case with AAS..... there are simply more effective ways to use it than others period.
Humalog vs. Humalin R. Log has a more powerful spike and is out of your system much quicker (dont have to monitor it as long... EASIER). R doesnt spike as powerful however it does spike twice and is longer sustained in the body. *IMO* it would be more beneficial to keep it longer sustained in the body, as the anabolic effects (along with lowering SHBG if combined with a test) would be the way to go. Would you prefer the stronger spike at the most opportune moments (AM and Post Workout) over the longer sustained effects?
EOD Dosing. Iv read more and more that this is becoming the more prefered method of choice. Why exactly does EOD dosing seem to be more effective than ED dosing if you cannot shut down your own natural production? Does the body build up a resistance and become less insulin sensative over time?
Multiple times per day vs. PWO only. There is also now multiple dosings per day, sometimes 3-4x per day. What is the benefit of having insulin levels high in the body all day long? I would think this would just lead to fat gain... once you have used slin to load up glycogen stores.. they cant get any FULLER than FULL. Maybe im missing something? PWO is the most opportune moment to load up glycogen and nutrient (BCAA, Creatine, Protein) transport and supersaturate your muscles. First thing in the AM i can also understand due to 8hrs with no food your body is craving it and catabolic. Why multiple dosings?

SIDE EFFECTS:
Debate on GH gut has been steered towards Insulin latly. Could be due to a number of things, including visceral fat. GH was around in the early 90's and nobody had guts, it didnt start until the slin was introduced and abused (Dorian was the first, and also the first to show signs of a gut). Since then, we are seeing alot of them. Thoughts on this?
Thickening of skin???? I have no clue the science behind this but it seems like insulin gives the appearance of thicker skin or LESS seperation between the muscles? Fat increasing in the crevices between the muscles killing seperation? Competitors who i personally know have used slin to a high degree (this is only speaking of people i KNOW of fairly well) seem to be softer than competitors that dont use it.


thoughts??????

I just started HR, 10IU post workout 2 times a week.. and experimenting .. I will let you know how it turns out,, this is a first time for me...

 

[KillerStack]

I have used all of the insulin protocols you have listed above and the one that worked the best for me while bulking was 10iu Humalog with each meal and then 20 iu post workout in the evening 3 times per week. The pumps are unreal, painful even. You feel like you could explode. I was averaging 7200 calories on slin days and 3500 calories the rest of the week. I have a very fast metabolism and I never would have hit 230 without the slin (and Gavin's advice on how to use it).

Down sides were feeling bloated all the time, being sleepy, and looking pregnant at the end of the day from all the food.

Is that 10IU each meal, every day or just workout days? How many IU per day at the most? If you eat 6 times per day that would be 60IU, pretty high.

 

[Steak Helmet]

started off with 2ius post workout...built up to 8ius in the morning and 8ius after training....

It usually hit me pretty hard...not sure if that is a sign of something to come. HUMALOG

I did get some love handles...I did not have the cleanest nutrition while on and it showed...it did not take long to build up some chub. so eat CLEAN!!!

 

[norm1220]

Is that 10IU each meal, every day or just workout days? How many IU per day at the most? If you eat 6 times per day that would be 60IU, pretty high.

Sorry, I could have been more clear. Insulin only on w/o days is what I meant. 10iu with each of the 4 meals I would eat before going to the gym, then 20 iu with my post w/o meal and I would squeeze in one more meal an hour and a half later. So I would have 5 shots (10,10,10,10,20) for a total of 60iu 3 times per week.

 

[nasser3]

started off with 2ius post workout...built up to 8ius in the morning and 8ius after training....

It usually hit me pretty hard...not sure if that is a sign of something to come. HUMALOG

I did get some love handles...I did not have the cleanest nutrition while on and it showed...it did not take long to build up some chub. so eat CLEAN!!!

Hey friend!
What is your weight?

Are you intermediate athlete?

 

[km2000]

O.k.

insulin is not anabolic(to muscle), I hear this all the time about insulin being the most anabolic hormone in the body and such, not true! the only thing insulin would be anabolic to is fat, not muscle.

insulin is anti-catabolic to muscle because insulin is an ANTAGONIST to the hormones which cause muscle to break down.

I dont belive in large doses of insulin,basically all you need to do is get the insulin above basal levels for insulin to be anti-catabolic.

I like gavins protocol of 3 day/week spreading the doses out in the day, this is to keep the body insulin sensative.

Humulog is the better of the 2 imo, best protocol for me would includw gh at 10iu per day spread out in 3 shots(3.3iu per shot) with 10-20 iu insulin per day spread out in 3 shots (3-8 iu per shot) the first shot being right in the morn when you eat, 2nd pwo and 3rd a few hrs befor you sleep(obviously with the right amount of carbs)

 

[Juice Freak]

I'm a natural ectomorph, super ectomorph I should say, when I started working out I was 6'9" and 165lbs when I was 18. Insulin has been one of the biggest tools for me for dramatic weight gain. I run 10ius with every meal (used to run it post workout) and 15ius post workout all humalog. I haven't noticed any loss of definition or blurred lines when I diet down. I've read a few posts on this as well, that insulin causes storage of fat in between muscle fibers and also in between your internal organs (visceral fat) and that's the cause of these large guts, but I haven't experienced this.

 

[littlemack]

Leave it to littlemack to come stickin' his nose where it don't belong. hahaha
I can do this b/c your my buddy toopoo. I know you'll understand. lol.
Never used insulin. My Dad is highly insulin resistent with TypeII diab. and uses a shitload of insulin. It is so bad that his doc told him she didn't think it was possible for him to overdose on insulin. His doses make these look laughable.

Anyway, I've been wondering about this gut people are noticing with bodybuilders and I am wondering if this is not caused by the fat in the greater omentum. This is this visceral fat that is inbetween your intestines and organs and kidneys. Ever notice how men can put on a beer gut that actually feels kind of firm? This is b/c the fat lies behind the abdomin, but you still have some sub fat over the abs. This fat in the greater omentum is a different kind of fat though. It releases a chemical that makes the body insulin resistant. This fat also can put pressure on the kidneys and cause high bp. Anyway, so I have a question.
1.Does supplementing with GH or insulin increase your resistance to insulin? Would it increase the fat in your greater omentum?

 

[KillerStack]

1.Does supplementing with GH or insulin increase your resistance to insulin?

Yes to both. GH induces insulin resistance due to the increase in lipolysis and decrease in glucose oxidation. The thermogenics like clen and ephedrine also cause insulin resistance which is why they work well for fat loss. Insulin resistance is not always completely negative from a physique alteration standpoint. High insulin sensitivity is of course important for health.

 

[Honu]

Used Humalin R a while back about 5-6 years ago. Started at 2IU first then topped off at 8IU, strictly post workout. Got my dosage based on my bodyweight at the time, 205lbs. Took in about 100 gms simple carbs with creatine after injection but I cant remember which gear I was on, probably sus/deca..no GH though..Tried it for about 4 weeks and didn't really notice any significant gains, except for more fat around the waist.. Maybe my insulin sensitivity sucks, but I wouldn't try it again.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I have always used hum-r, so I can't compare it to the other kinds

I use it pre-workout IM 15iu with 75 gr whey isolate and 100gr maltodextrin
post workout I take in 30-40 gr of sugar

in addition I'm taking about 300 - 350mcg of clen ed, these are the only two things I'm currently taking and the combo works great for me, been using this protocol for a while


I also use cinnulin PF off and on to keep my insulin sensitivity up