Intermittent Cycling

[RONJON]

from listening to alot of more experienced bros on our board I know that most feel that it is much better for you to do intermittent cycling than the year round (or longer stuff). Well I am in my mid twenties by no means an AAS novice BUT now that I feel my diet and training are under control and are where they need to be I am exploring safer and MORE BENEFICIAL ways to implement in AAS.

I know that I dont want to foul up my HPTA levels while doing a long cycle and have to go on trt or anything so I am looking for different opinions on the art of intermittant cycling.


It is my understanding that most hear find this method much more effective than long continuous cycles that make it much more difficult to recovery from HPTA dormancey.



RONJON

 

[full_belly]

hahaha.... this could be a real informative discussion...

personally.... i dont gain much of anything except sides(negative) and waste money after 5-7wks..
im tending to lean towards believing that full suppression of hpta takes approx 2-3 wks of aas action. So I am trying 3-4 on/2 off..

main thing right now is im feeling healthier, less bloat, no bp raises and saving money.... and still maintainig at least 4-6lbs each little blast....

its all about what you(ronjon) feel and believe will be the healthiest option FOR YOU longterm..

i look forward to hearing differing opinions

 

[617ricky]

and looking to run it low dose for around 6 months intermittantly what are some good strategies???

What you mean by this - you want to run a low dose for 6 months intermittently? If you do a cycle, you do a consistent schedule of dosing over a course of 8-16 wks usually. If it's your 1st cycle, I'd stay on the lower side, 10 wks maybe. But I don't know what you mean by intermittently, because if you're on, you're on - and it's a planned out cycle.

 

[RONJON]

^Well not the first cycle but been a while..started too early..(a mistake I hope that many of the younger guys on here will learn from actually) but anyway I have never done a cycle for this length of time it has always been a 8-12 week thing and wanted to give the lower dose longer length a try. My only concern is not messen my self up where I cant have kids ya know haha ..a little extreme maybe but being serious. And I am just looking for the best way to long cycle I guess. I dont wanna have to be on hrt in the future and am going to start planning on maybe 2 cycles per year or perhaps eventually a 6 month on/ 6 month off protocol much like Dave P. advocated in the Q and A thread.

..So just looking for ideas and opinions from guys with experience here

 

[full_belly]

I know dad will back me up here, I do wholeheartedly believe 1 -2 longishish cycles per year shut people down soo hard, guys starting that in their early 20's(like me lol) when they get off in their 30's(life, job, kids,wife) their test levels suck so bad they almost candidates for HRT by 35...

I have 3 close mates 33-36 who are in this boat, non have done over a gram and most less than 10wks..

me??? im in this boat at 29..

plenty of guys recover well I know youll all say. My body has always lacked recovery, in training, in gear, in lack of sleep, so not too big a stretch to have realised this lol

 

[RONJON]

Assuming we're not talking about actual cycle set-ups, as in "how much shuold I take...," etc - the long cycles, in my opinion, are never the right answer.

Let me ask the long cycle fans this:
How much did yuo gain?
And if it was such good gains, why do yuo need to repeat this?

Whenever I hear a comment such as "I like long cycles..," what I'm hearing is someone who gains, but then gives most or all of it back. This is predictable on long cycles as HPT axis is shut down and takes months to recover.

Usually, these long cycle fans think 4 weeks or so of some combination of anti-estrogens, HCG, and Clomd will take care of having been on a cyle for months - it won't.

I could go on and on, and have, but it falls on deaf ears, so I don't anymore. The facts are:
Long cycles shut down HPT axis hard
Hard shut down takes a very long time to normalize
People who use this do so, in my opinion, because they don't know any better
PCT is grossly underestimated in general, but especially on cycles over 6-9 weeks

One final thought:
If yuo've done even one cycle of, say, 16+ weeks and knew what yuo were doing, yuo should've gained 20+ lbs of muscle and kept most of it.
This means if yuo've done three of these yuo shuold be up somewhere around 50+ lbs. This brings the average 180 lb gym rat up to above 230. Unless yuo're well over 6 feet tall, this is pretty good sized.

So if this is yuor cycle plan, and yuo haven't achieed this, the ods are yuo don't know what yuo're doing, and/or yuor genetics simply does not allow yuo to respond well to cycles of any sort regardless of their length or composition.

All drug use has done is expand, and one look at pictures in musle boards will tell yuo that most do not benefit from this.

Thanks for the post DAD this is the kind of information i am looking for...

would you please give ur opinion on cycles per year bro??? I would be VERY curious on your personal "hypothetical" opinion here

RJ

 

[BigBoomer18]

Assuming we're not talking about actual cycle set-ups, as in "how much shuold I take...," etc - the long cycles, in my opinion, are never the right answer.

Let me ask the long cycle fans this:
How much did yuo gain?
And if it was such good gains, why do yuo need to repeat this?

Whenever I hear a comment such as "I like long cycles..," what I'm hearing is someone who gains, but then gives most or all of it back. This is predictable on long cycles as HPT axis is shut down and takes months to recover.

Usually, these long cycle fans think 4 weeks or so of some combination of anti-estrogens, HCG, and Clomd will take care of having been on a cyle for months - it won't.

I could go on and on, and have, but it falls on deaf ears, so I don't anymore. The facts are:
Long cycles shut down HPT axis hard
Hard shut down takes a very long time to normalize
People who use this do so, in my opinion, because they don't know any better
PCT is grossly underestimated in general, but especially on cycles over 6-9 weeks

One final thought:
If yuo've done even one cycle of, say, 16+ weeks and knew what yuo were doing, yuo should've gained 20+ lbs of muscle and kept most of it.
This means if yuo've done three of these yuo shuold be up somewhere around 50+ lbs. This brings the average 180 lb gym rat up to above 230. Unless yuo're well over 6 feet tall, this is pretty good sized.

So if this is yuor cycle plan, and yuo haven't achieed this, the ods are yuo don't know what yuo're doing, and/or yuor genetics simply does not allow yuo to respond well to cycles of any sort regardless of their length or composition.

All drug use has done is expand, and one look at pictures in musle boards will tell yuo that most do not benefit from this.

extremely informative post. i agree 100% with everything Dad just said

 

[chris250]

good thread started here

 

[full_belly]

Thanks dad, i do enjoy your musing'

 

[tkav1980]

dad i have a questions for you. would what your talking about look something like this?

100mg prop eod wk 1-6
clomid wk 7-10
bloodwork
repeat

im trying to understand what enough pct for a short blast actually is. not doseage more length of time. ive always gone by feel as to when its time for bloodwork. i mean i think thats the only way to know your fully recovered right?

 

[full_belly]

dad i have a questions for you. would what your talking about look something like this?

100mg prop eod wk 1-6
clomid wk 7-10
bloodwork
repeat

im trying to understand what enough pct for a short blast actually is. not doseage more length of time. ive always gone by feel as to when its time for bloodwork. i mean i think thats the only way to know your fully recovered right?

Tkav...that looks beta than most, but even after 6wks you end up pretty shut down, 6wks or 10wks same end result for many ive talked with over the years....

to PREVENT shutdown somewhat you really talking no more than 4wks...

 

[gordo14]

What about doses?

Tkav...that looks beta than most, but even after 6wks you end up pretty shut down, 6wks or 10wks same end result for many ive talked with over the years....

to PREVENT shutdown somewhat you really talking no more than 4wks...

If your using 4 week blast then is it more benificial to use a higher dose?

My reasoning is that we all say start off low 250mg per week. Is it worth doing a 4 week blast at 250 per week? Your barely producing more results than some hrt. Your basicly stopping your own production just to give enough to balance out.?

And before people start saying 250 is hardly an HRT dose. There are some reputable smart individuals on this board that have shared they get 200mg per week for hrt. Followed up by blood test, and they are in the high normal.

 

[FordTurboDiesel]

Doesn't it take 3-4 weeks for TestE to even start to kick in most guys' systems?

What particular type of aas are we talking here?

 

[RONJON]

A vet from another board suggested this:

1-16: test 300mg/wk
15-24: tribulus 5grams/day
17-18: Nolva 50mg/day
19-20: Nolva 25mc/day
25-40: test 300mg/week
39-48: tribulus 5 grams/day
41-42: Nolva 50mg/day
43-44: Nolva 25mg/day
49-??: tribulus 3grams/day

What would be opinions on something like that?..looks odd from what im used to seeing in a traditional sense...

 

[RONJON]

dad i have a questions for you. would what your talking about look something like this?

100mg prop eod wk 1-6
clomid wk 7-10
bloodwork
repeat

im trying to understand what enough pct for a short blast actually is. not doseage more length of time. ive always gone by feel as to when its time for bloodwork. i mean i think thats the only way to know your fully recovered right?

yea good question bro..and when these short blasts are done..I am confused on these guys time on vs time off ratio? I mean when does the "repeat" aspect happen and then when would you be finished..guys just doing these continual short blasts followed by the pct and bloodwork and then repeating till they feel like stopping??...hmmmmmm puts a new spin on that whole long cycling concept. Definately seems safer to me

 

[full_belly]

If your using 4 week blast then is it more benificial to use a higher dose?

My reasoning is that we all say start off low 250mg per week. Is it worth doing a 4 week blast at 250 per week? Your barely producing more results than some hrt. Your basicly stopping your own production just to give enough to balance out.?

And before people start saying 250 is hardly an HRT dose. There are some reputable smart individuals on this board that have shared they get 200mg per week for hrt. Followed up by blood test, and they are in the high normal.

I guess (i know) dose is very individual gordo... i tend to do 200mg eod for the first 20 days.. i often use db or sim the first 5-7 days whilst the (usually) test e kicks in..

again, its very personal.. i still dont feel i need more at 240lb..

 

[full_belly]

yea good question bro..and when these short blasts are done..I am confused on these guys time on vs time off ratio? I mean when does the "repeat" aspect happen and then when would you be finished..guys just doing these continual short blasts followed by the pct and bloodwork and then repeating till they feel like stopping??...hmmmmmm puts a new spin on that whole long cycling concept. Definately seems safer to me

yes!!! ronjon i whole heartedly believe this is healthier for me!!

3wks on, 3 off, however there is some low activity wk4... i pay close attention to controlling estro etc and plan to keep repeating 4-6 times then comin off for a couple months...

 

[gelatine]

A vet from another board suggested this:

1-16: test 300mg/wk
15-24: tribulus 5grams/day
17-18: Nolva 50mg/day
19-20: Nolva 25mc/day
25-40: test 300mg/week
39-48: tribulus 5 grams/day
41-42: Nolva 50mg/day
43-44: Nolva 25mg/day
49-??: tribulus 3grams/day

What would be opinions on something like that?..looks odd from what im used to seeing in a traditional sense...

It looks like shit to me unless you're hypersensitive to tribulus, it's just a crap OTC test booster. This cycle is basically ignoring PCT and doing low dose test.

 

[RONJON]

It looks like shit to me unless you're hypersensitive to tribulus, it's just a crap OTC test booster. This cycle is basically ignoring PCT and doing low dose test.

well the low dose test is on purpose bro..ive ran 3xs this much in the past and it was A MISTAKE..bad sides and I was too young and inexperienced man. So not worried about doing anything higher for the time being..at least nothing over 500/wk. As for the trib instead of hcg..well im new to that as well honestly. Never heard of it until it was suggested to my on another board. What is your experience bro? If you think it looks like shit bro..lemme know what you would do instead.

 

[EAPFAN]

Doesn't it take 3-4 weeks for TestE to even start to kick in most guys' systems?

What particular type of aas are we talking here?

This is a GREAT point! I know that from past cycles I usually don't feel ANYTHING from the AS until at least 3 weeks in!