Is Bulking Necessary for huge gains?

[jahras12]

Guys,

I would like an opinion on this subject-I cant seem to stop reading and thinking about it- In the offseason some people say to get fat and eat 6-8k cals daily while others say eat normal, for ex. high protein(1-2x bodyweight) mod carbs and low fats like 3-5kcals- which is better? Is it better to get fat and then lose it come comp time or stay under 12% bf year round and look quite good- which one will yield the best results- from my previous experiences I have gotten fat in like 2-3 months from eating 6-7k cals a day, but I dont seem to gain that good with 3-4k cals-either way, leaning out is easy- which is better for me to succeed in bodybuilding- truly I do not care how I look in the offseason, i want to be freaky over time, I have the time, patience,money and drive-from previous trainers they just tell me to eat massive- I want to know what others do, I am looking to excel in this sport and gain some good size and thickness- what is the best option? all opinions and experience is welcome, so I know how to plan my next offseason for the next couple of years not competing...

jon

 

[DOGMA]

Well maybe some of the larger fella's can chime in here. But I never meet anyone who was huge that did not eat a huge amount of food. I think how fat you get while bulking has most to do with what it is you consume to get to those huge calorie goals and the type of training you do in the off season. I mean take a look at Gunter he stays close to contest shape year round and he must eat massive amounts of food then take Lee he eats buckets of KFC, boxes of Kripy Kreams and becomes absolutely fat as a tick in the process. I quess it all comes down to how much hell you want to put yourself thru when contest time comes around or your just get sick of being bloated and try to lose that excess body fat.

I say when bulking get in all your protiens, fats and carbs per your goals then eat whatever else you want if you start getting to fat back off.

 

[DOGMA]

Also

I think Gunther's way is MUCH healthier.

 

[jahras12]

I love this topic because i think it is what seperates the men from the boys in this sport- I can push myself to eat the food, but then I get fat quick, and mentally eating 3500 cals just doesnt seem to pack on that quality size- considering Im almost 20 I sometimes feel bulking would be the better choice, but then again there is the fact that my next offseason will be longer than a year maybe even 2 years to try an open show and try to succeed- all in all I have heard and seen most people start bulking early in their careers and then later taper down and stay lean year round like at 28-35 years old when they have enuf size to do well- but I want to be a freak this is how I feel i can succed in this sport with my body type....thanks for the reply dogma

 

[DOGMA]

Damn

Bro, your 19!.... Just a pup..... Shoot for consistency and moderate gains and you will be a monster in no time...You got all the time in the world. The best thing "I think you could do" is get a mentor what I mean by that is invest in Phills knowledge or follow Dante(doggcrapp's) program and you can get a large as you want. I wish I could have, would have when is was 20. I'd be a monster NOW...LOL

 

[jahras12]

Getting a mentor is a great idea- I have had a few already-not the top names like phil, big a, or DC, or trop-but a few of the local top bbers I have met in my area that I admire their physiques and want to train an up and comer- but what kills me is to see that they eat crappy and sometimes less than 2500 cals a day in the offseason and they still look good and gain muscle, and my phsyique suffers and gets fat- I guess thats muscle maturity for you and they were all over 30 y/o-but besides the age and maturity they have all said to me -and this is every trainer i have met- that I have a physique that can be freaky and huge not pleasing like Shawn ray-I need to eat big- but what really is big?- Ive done the high protein diets, and high carb diets, I gain the best with the high carb diets with 1-2g protein/lb of bodyweight and mod to low fat- but dont gain as much as if I add more fat with high carb and high protein- I guess its tough to get fat, but it is part of it- I just would like to hear some others experiences in this field like what others did when they were young and wanted the size and finally got it- did they eat huge or eat normal-and stay consistent or what-what will truly build that freakiness?

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

I don't think so

I used to think so but after gaining 30 lbs and dropping my bodyfat at the same time..NO!!!

 

[DOGMA]

So how'd you do it Bro!

 

[jahras12]

Big bump on dogma's reply- this could help me out a whole lot along with others in my shoes-please detail it out

 

[big_byrd52]

i dont see any reason to get over 12% when bulking. but in saying this, it is assuming one has already dieted down to competition shape or close to it. if u diet to 6% at 200lbs, to get to 12% is 12 lbs of just fat. keep it in check before it gets out of hand. dont bulk too long. switch gears and diet down when weight gain stalls, then start over again. its healthier, and u look better while u do it.

 

[jahras12]

big byrd- you make a good point- its funny -my bro and I were talking about this theory a couple of hours ago- I was saying that i would try and get bigger and bigger, and then if I get too big or stopped growing -lean out for a little like a month and start again-you are just seconding that theory so thanks-its a great way to do it-keeps things new and you dont go stale and lose your appetite either,sometimes eating that much can be tough and sometimes dieting can be tough,so it hits both worlds-and yes I have gotten down to a low bf%, but truly I dont mind being over 12% to gain quality mass and size...

Jon

 

[jahras12]

sorry to post again but...

I was calculating a good base diet of approx. 5500k cals for the offseason- high pro(around 300g) high carb(around 600-700g) and 50-60g fat- I would eat this and if I was still hungry-which I doubt I would be-consume more good clean carbs like rye bread or whole grain bagels at nite-if cheating was necessary(bdays,special occasions) the diet would have to be eaten and then i could eat as much as i could handle -which wouldnt be that much -so I would stay away from junk all in all...

Jon

 

[xcelbeyond]

i dont see any reason to get over 12% when bulking. but in saying this, it is assuming one has already dieted down to competition shape or close to it. if u diet to 6% at 200lbs, to get to 12% is 12 lbs of just fat. keep it in check before it gets out of hand. dont bulk too long. switch gears and diet down when weight gain stalls, then start over again. its healthier, and u look better while u do it.

I tend to go with this school of thought. I "look" pretty fat at 12% and would and can stay at 7-8% year round. When I'm at 7-8% everyone's like telling me how HUGE I look and when in fact I weight LESS than when I'm at 12%

There's a balance that is very individual IMHO. I REALLY HATE the roller coaster game and would rather just keep making progressive gains. I'm justifying my latest "get fat" go around by telling myself "I'm just bulking"

 

[nandro]

i've tried alot of nonsense eating trying to 'get big' for years which even included perillo's ole 9000 cal diet back in the 80's. i've found to eat high carb, high fat, moderate protein to work best for me and not force feed myself. if i'm hungry, i eat. if i'm not hungry then i just hold off for a few hours. I've never had a problem gaining muscle and actually had to cut back a few times because i couldn't handle the rapid increase in size. (asthma). i've met a few guys from the boards who were well known big talk, know all vets.(not this board...lol) when i met them in person i could not believe my eyes. they were just fat and i'd swear they didn't know what the inside of a gym looks like. they knew how to sell drugs though.

keep in mind. get information from a credable source. the internet is filled with these little book worms who read everything here and repeats it as if it is science. (example clen 2 days on 2 days off for two weeks). This is a great board and i agree with the majority stated. be careful of bandwagons and give different ideas a descent try. you'll find what works for you. it just takes time in trial and error.

what caused me to start growing rapidly had nothing to do with food but more to do with drugs. people can bash all they want. the more i took, the more i grew.(i have really good genetics) now i'm gonna be hated here. sorry, just trying to help

 

[jahras12]

nandro,

thanks for the response-of course there is a great use to drugs, but truly i believe it all comes down to everything, my food seems to be the most thought about problem in my eyes- i can take a lot of stuff but I get huge by eating some junk and some clean and get lean by eating clean alone-I have noticed this and believe highly in diet-drugs are drugs and training is training, but diet just seems to be that enigma that i find some people get fat to gain and some people stay relatively lean and gain- i guess it all comes down to how you want to look and feel -if you can hack dieting down hard and like to eat in the offseason go for it-if it is the other way then go for that- but I see all these top pros and top ams and even guys at comps and just wonder is that time, drugs, food, and I believe it to be food because loads of gh test and slin aint gonna make you a freak with a 2500 cal diet-all in all i guess it just comes down to time and consistency to get those freaky proportions...what do you guys think?

 

[Gone1]

I tend to go with this school of thought. I "look" pretty fat at 12% and would and can stay at 7-8% year round. When I'm at 7-8% everyone's like telling me how HUGE I look and when in fact I weight LESS than when I'm at 12%

There's a balance that is very individual IMHO. I REALLY HATE the roller coaster game and would rather just keep making progressive gains. I'm justifying my latest "get fat" go around by telling myself "I'm just bulking"

Same here Xcel -
I can be 280lbs massing but for some reason i get many more "your huge" compliments when i am way leaner but around 250 or so.
Over the years... (alot of them unfortunatly) i have come to realize that "quality" is much more impressive then "quantity".
Bodybuilding is alot illusion ....

Good luck -
JJ

 

[dirkmoneyshot]

5500 kcals / day??? You have to be kidding. Unless your a construction worker, working 14 hrs a day along with working out. Its very doubtful you going to do anything more then become a complete fat ass--

Second i would love to see you come up with a diet of 5500 kcals and only 50g of Fat.

The guys that are truly successful, are the ones able to process what they eat more efficiently then the rest. if your asking this question its doubtful your one.

I would recommend at your age to make sure to eat quality proteins every 2 1/2 to 3 hrs and eat carbs/fat until your full.

Use your appetite as a guage. its telling you something. No sense getting over 12%.

 

[jahras12]

DMS,

I see what youre saying- I agree- but I read all these posts like by ian harrison and this guy and that guy and DC training for pennies etc etc- they all say they eat 6-8k cals a day and go for more every day-they state that is truly how one gets huge- the way it stayed at such a low fat rate was because all my carbs were rice and oats-rice has no fat and 3.5 cups of oats contains 15 grams of fat the rest of the fats came from protein powder whcih was around 15-20 grams and tuna and chicken breast 99% ff...anywho- I will most probably if not definitely gain but like you guys are saying opt for around 300 grams protein(60g/meal), 500 carbs(100g/meal), and some fat like olive oil or some good fat like have whole eggs instead of egg whites for 5 meals- prolly around 4k-5k cals- I know that eating 6k cals + is extremely tough and last time I ate like that i got fat in less than a month- I just want to know what others do so i can learn and succeed-thats why i am on this board...thanks for the reply

Jon

 

[SFINX]

Ofcourse

If they tell you to eat shit to get big...would you do it?

 

[TooPowerful4u]

First of all i dont believe Gunter is healthy, i hear he is on EPO almost year round, jeeeze.

Now i was lectured by my boss on this (you alll know who he is), and he basicly said why blow up and get fat. Your just going to drop muscle mass when you diet down anyway becuase you have to diet so much and so hard to get rid of all the fat. Bulk and stay somewhat lean that way you can bulk for a longer period of time (less bodyfat you carry, less time you gotta spend cutting) and then when it comes to diet down it wont be as long and itl actually be easier. Not to mention your skin wil be tighter and thinner. PLUS YOU WILL LOOK A LOT BETTER YEAR ROUND.