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Is it a waste of gear to up doses on a diet?

Silencer

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Going into week six of Big A's classic diet with great results so far. Losing about 2lbs of fat per week without any T3 or clen, so it's just as good as the keto diets I've done for the past few years.

Running things simple, like I always do: 500mg test E, some turinabol, and Yellow Haze. Don't care about any bloat (of which I have very little anyway) since this is not for the stage. Just want to see if I can get down to sub-6%, which I've never done. Definitely should get there in another 3-4 weeks if the fat loss doesn't slow down. My vascularity is already off the charts. As always, this is being done as one phase in my 7-8 month long annual cycle.

My question: I have lost almost no LBM this time, and was mulling over adding in another 200-400mg of test for the final stages of the diet to see if not only can I maintain, but add LBM at the end here. Or will all the cardio/workouts/low carbs make it a waste of AAS?
 

juicin

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why not just stay with the 500mg since you are doing so well off of it?

I personally dont think you will be able to add any muscle while dieting below 6%, seems nearly impossible
 

BLACKCAT

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More gear does not always mean better fat loss during a diet. In some cases it will make things slow down and stall. If you bog down your body with more gear than it can handle, your body will not be able to function optimally. In my opinion, particularly for what you are doing, you should be taking just enough to preserve muscle and keep your strength up which will kinda go hand in hand anyway. If you're not hitting the stage, messing around with heavy androgens and other stuff just isn't needed. Keep going a steady pace and don't rush it.
 

Scott21

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More gear does not always mean better fat loss during a diet. In some cases it will make things slow down and stall. If you bog down your body with more gear than it can handle, your body will not be able to function optimally. In my opinion, particularly for what you are doing, you should be taking just enough to preserve muscle and keep your strength up which will kinda go hand in hand anyway. If you're not hitting the stage, messing around with heavy androgens and other stuff just isn't needed. Keep going a steady pace and don't rush it.



While dieting I actually look better while keeping the gear low to medium. Less gear means more sleep, less stress on my body, and better cardiovascular health. This is even more important for me when I'm in a calorie deficit and wish to hold on to the most amount of muscle possible. However, your mileage may vary.
 

chrisrivers

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Good points here on this topic. Another board i belong to, the mod there said he increase his AAS while dieting.

Reason being "Hold on to more while being in a very low total caloric intake"

I think this has some merit as well. Any body else comment on this?
 

booey

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You don't need a lot of gear while cutting. I like to keep test pretty low and once I get lean enough, I'll consider eq, winny or masteron for aesthetics (to get the "hard" look).
 

Johnny Smiles

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REALLY?

keeping gear low while prepping for contest goes against everything i have ever learned/done/seen.
you really think the pro's would even consider lower dose for a contest when you are trying to be biggest and leanest as possible...?

its hard for mne to choose kind words to discuss this. it seems elementary to me to up dose to get leaner and bigger at THE SAME TIME. its called groiwng into a show. do a search on it. maybe i am wrong but in essence it works like this:
more juice=more muscle=higher metabolism=more ripped

saying you should take less juice is almost claiming one could get more ripped being nattie...? cuz nattie is REAL low dose. MOST if not ALL guys get more ripped while on and keep plenty of size and if diet is right can even grow.
-JS
 

BLACKCAT

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keeping gear low while prepping for contest goes against everything i have ever learned/done/seen.
you really think the pro's would even consider lower dose for a contest when you are trying to be biggest and leanest as possible...?

its hard for mne to choose kind words to discuss this. it seems elementary to me to up dose to get leaner and bigger at THE SAME TIME. its called groiwng into a show. do a search on it. maybe i am wrong but in essence it works like this:
more juice=more muscle=higher metabolism=more ripped

saying you should take less juice is almost claiming one could get more ripped being nattie...? cuz nattie is REAL low dose. MOST if not ALL guys get more ripped while on and keep plenty of size and if diet is right can even grow.
-JS
Read the guy that started the thread's post. He's not competing. If he was, that would be a different story.
 

knucklehed

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Interesting topic. From an old-fart's perspective; my attitude towards this endeavor has changed as I have grown older. My body seems more sensitive to what I put in it and what I do with it. And I like feeling good.

There is no doubt that Johnny is right when it comes to competitive Bodybuilding and working towards high level competition, more gear is likely beneficial...

On the other hand looking and feeling good should go together.
Like BLACKCAT was eluding to; you might just feel better on less.

For me, 'an old guy', there is a sweet-spot, where I feel strong, cardio is a breeze, blood-pressure good, libido high:D and I sleep like a baby:)

The key is finding the sweet-spot between estro/andro/dopamine/cortisole etc by correctly balancing Test/AI/HCG/HGH/supps etc. Then adjust your macros/calories/training split/cardio/sleep/sex....

Then WHOALA...
You're big, lean, hard and perform better than most 25 year olds :D:D
 

booey

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keeping gear low while prepping for contest goes against everything i have ever learned/done/seen.
you really think the pro's would even consider lower dose for a contest when you are trying to be biggest and leanest as possible...?

its hard for mne to choose kind words to discuss this. it seems elementary to me to up dose to get leaner and bigger at THE SAME TIME. its called groiwng into a show. do a search on it. maybe i am wrong but in essence it works like this:
more juice=more muscle=higher metabolism=more ripped

saying you should take less juice is almost claiming one could get more ripped being nattie...? cuz nattie is REAL low dose. MOST if not ALL guys get more ripped while on and keep plenty of size and if diet is right can even grow.
-JS
Who said anything about competing?
 

Retabolil2

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keeping gear low while prepping for contest goes against everything i have ever learned/done/seen.
you really think the pro's would even consider lower dose for a contest when you are trying to be biggest and leanest as possible...?
Gotta agree with you. I cant move any serious weights while dieting so extra juice wont hurt. Its definitely a little bit more than 500mg of test plus some tbol. My old friend Jan who won Mr.Universe 2005 was taking 500mg of sust eod plus some other gear :) Id add some anabolics to your stack. maybe 750mg of test per week plus alot of winnie, primo, tbol. It wont hurt you for sure. But if you`re not experienced with gear probably you dont need high dosages...
Competing or not but the goal is to get rid of fat and add on some extra muscles or save the mass that you got and extra juice wouldnt be a waste of money in that case.
 

bigz

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Going into week six of Big A's classic diet with great results so far. Losing about 2lbs of fat per week without any T3 or clen, so it's just as good as the keto diets I've done for the past few years.

Running things simple, like I always do: 500mg test E, some turinabol, and Yellow Haze. Don't care about any bloat (of which I have very little anyway) since this is not for the stage. Just want to see if I can get down to sub-6%, which I've never done. Definitely should get there in another 3-4 weeks if the fat loss doesn't slow down. My vascularity is already off the charts. As always, this is being done as one phase in my 7-8 month long annual cycle.

My question: I have lost almost no LBM this time, and was mulling over adding in another 200-400mg of test for the final stages of the diet to see if not only can I maintain, but add LBM at the end here. Or will all the cardio/workouts/low carbs make it a waste of AAS?
Where did you find Big A's classic diet?
 

Johnny Smiles

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no one did...

Read the guy that started the thread's post. He's not competing. If he was, that would be a different story.
well, he is competing with himself... and he does want to get un-normally ripped so... its not too far of a strecth from getting ready for competition IMO.

i was using competition prep as an example of guys that get VERY lean. i am assuming that is the goal, right? to get lean?
or is getting lean "just for fun" different than getting lean "for the stage" i was under the assumption getting lean is the same as getting lean no matter what the reason and the same tools would work for both.

HOWEVER, if you are trying to get lean AND feel good like Knucklehead said (btw sup bro!) then upping dose might not always be the answer. but, "feeling good" wasn't mentioned either.

sorry if i came across rough guys. bit edgy during prep...
-JS
 

BLACKCAT

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well, he is competing with himself... and he does want to get un-normally ripped so... its not too far of a strecth from getting ready for competition IMO.

i was using competition prep as an example of guys that get VERY lean. i am assuming that is the goal, right? to get lean?
or is getting lean "just for fun" different than getting lean "for the stage" i was under the assumption getting lean is the same as getting lean no matter what the reason and the same tools would work for both.

HOWEVER, if you are trying to get lean AND feel good like Knucklehead said (btw sup bro!) then upping dose might not always be the answer. but, "feeling good" wasn't mentioned either.

sorry if i came across rough guys. bit edgy during prep...
-JS
Ehhh no worries man. I guess I was just pointing out, as you know, "stage ready" lean and just getting to a point where you are leaner than most in the gym but still impressive are too different things in my opinion. The first of the two is pretty darn uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. I guess my whole point was that if getting really lean for yourself is the goal, in my opinion, it can be done without having to use some pretty toxic stuff to get that "heart beating underneith the skin" look that's desired on stage.
 

Johnny Smiles

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AGREED

Ehhh no worries man. I guess I was just pointing out, as you know, "stage ready" lean and just getting to a point where you are leaner than most in the gym but still impressive are too different things in my opinion. The first of the two is pretty darn uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. I guess my whole point was that if getting really lean for yourself is the goal, in my opinion, it can be done without having to use some pretty toxic stuff to get that "heart beating underneith the skin" look that's desired on stage.
lol. funny way of putting it bro.
yeah, i agree with you. i would say upping dose won't hurt the leaning out process but might not help overall health so its a persoanl decision and i think Knucklehead said it best, you gotta find that sweet spot. that may entail upping dose but prolly don't wanna go crazy if not competing cuz it might not be necassary for your goals.
as an example, look at Emeric. dude is over 50 yrs old lean as hell and never gone above 300mg of test i think even as a compting pro?!?!
-JS
 

Silencer

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as an example, look at Emeric. dude is over 50 yrs old lean as hell and never gone above 300mg of test i think even as a compting pro?!?!
-JS
300mg...that just makes me want to cry. Amazing!

Lots of good thoughts in this thread; thanks for all the contributions, and please keep them coming, esp from personal experiences getting ready for shows, or photoshoots, etc.

Yes, my goal is as lean as I can get, though not stage lean because as someone said, that is almost impossible to maintain for any length of time and I couldn't motivate myself for the weeks and weeks necessary to go that far without having something to look forward to -- a photoshoot, competition, etc. Knucklehed's "sweet spot" sounds perfect, so I guess that is going to mean some testing on myself and see how my body/pressure/lipids respond. I will say this, this is the first time I've not lost LBM, so now I'm a believer in the "growing into a show". Thought it was just myth...

Bigz, here is Big A's diet: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/1157-dieting-getting-ready-competition.html It is brutal, but it flat out works. Like most things, it is also simple. Just needs dedication -- a big helping of it!
 
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Johnny Smiles

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300mg...that just makes me want to cry. Amazing!

Lots of good thoughts in this thread; thanks for all the contributions, and please keep them coming, esp from personal experiences getting ready for shows, or photoshoots, etc.

Yes, my goal is as lean as I can get, though not stage lean because as someone said, that is almost impossible to maintain for any length of time and I couldn't motivate myself for the weeks and weeks necessary to go that far without having something to look forward to -- a photoshoot, competition, etc. Knucklehed's "sweet spot" sounds perfect, so I guess that is going to mean some testing on myself and see how my body/pressure/lipids respond. I will say this, this is the first time I've not lost LBM, so now I'm a believer in the "growing into a show". Thought it was just myth...

Bigz, here is Big A's diet: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/1157-dieting-getting-ready-competition.html It is brutal, but it flat out works. Like most things, it is also simple. Just needs dedication -- a big helping of it!
a tear drops from my eye...
LOL. so glad you learned that it can be done. just takes the right kinda diet and not too much cardio in my opinion.
when you find your sweet spot let us knw. i am curious what it will be.
-JS
 

Mr_M

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lol. funny way of putting it bro.
yeah, i agree with you. i would say upping dose won't hurt the leaning out process but might not help overall health so its a persoanl decision and i think Knucklehead said it best, you gotta find that sweet spot. that may entail upping dose but prolly don't wanna go crazy if not competing cuz it might not be necassary for your goals.
as an example, look at Emeric. dude is over 50 yrs old lean as hell and never gone above 300mg of test i think even as a compting pro?!?!
-JS
You're so naive...
 

Johnny Smiles

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and you are not wise

You're so naive...
i know what it takes to achieve the "look" on stage, hence i gave my advice above. it doesn't sound like this guy wants to go that route so i gave him an example of someone who suggested high amounts of drugs are not requiered to look good.
i won't call Emeric a liar whether its true or not. i just wanted to pass on that not everyone has to juice their ass off to achieve their goals. truth is no one knows what Emeric has done or does except for him. no one knows what i do or you do or anything. i am WISE enough to know that. but what ever he says i won't call him a liar he has helped me and he helped my grand father for FREE cuz he cared. i spoke with him on the phone the man knows more about the pharmocology of this sport than you can imagine.

anyway, nothing wrong to give guys advice that high dose isn't always the right answer....
-JS
 

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