Is STRENGTH without SIZE retainable post-cycle?

PsyT · Oct 16, 2009

If you run a short cycle and explode strengthwise...make some amazing strength gains...but you only put on lets say 6-8 pounds...is the strength gains you make retainable??? Or are strength gains only retainable with big size gains also???

I have gained about 4 pounds this cycle...its almost half over...only 20 more days to go...my strength has gone off the chart though (for me!). I am wondering if I will be able to retain these strength gains without much more size coming on.

I do a 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off lifting schedule...so I have 6 of my individual workouts to do remaining - 12 total workouts which are roughly half upper and half lower workouts (so plenty time for MORE strength gains as mind boggling as that seems to me now given my gains so far).

I am hoping to gain 4 more pounds in the last 3 weeks of this cycle...

My question if you didn't read the above: is strength gains retainable without much substantial size gains made?

Jay.TD · Oct 17, 2009

If you dont mind my asking, what does your cycle consist of?

usilemu · Oct 17, 2009

its undoubtly possible more likely then not if you have a good pct im sure

usilemu · Oct 17, 2009

the only thing youll prolly sacrifice in the end is a few lbs of water weight considering you know how to train and diet

PsyT · Oct 17, 2009

MY CYCLE:

1-40: 150mg prop EOD
1-66: 12.5mg aromasin ED
1-45: TBOL 40-60mg ED (depending if its a lifting day or not)
20-45: 200ug HCG EOD
46-66: Clomid 25mg ED
40-66: IGF 25-40ug ED (haven't decided dose yet)

Also I use GHRP-6 and CJC1295 every night in the middle of the night at 200ug for both (400ug total).

I eat 400g protein and 300-400g carb (depending on if its a day I lift or not). And I try to get in 40 grams of fat from fish oil, hemp oil, and flax oil. I guess the rest of my fat comes from the beef, chicken, milk, and peanut butter I eat.

PsyT · Oct 17, 2009

like I said I definitely have put on SIZE...its just not much compared to what some guys say about their cycles (I know I know mine is short compared to most cycles)...I've lost a little bit of fat and put on 4 pounds total. hoping for 4 more pounds honestly!

But mainly this cycle has been about strength. Its been insane. Every time I lift I keep going up. To give you an idea I started out doing 2x8 with 195 on pulldowns (I know I know not huge!). That was the beginning of my cycle. Now halfway through I am doing 2x8 at freakin' 250 pounds per set!!!! Its insane to me I feel like a beast compared to what I used to be. I'm honestly hoping I can hit 300 by the end of the cycle!!!!! If I keep feeding myself right and keep getting 10 hours of sleep a night I think I may be able to do that!!!!

I have 6 more workouts where I will try to hit PRs with pulldowns. Weighted dips have been insane also. I went from doing 2x10 with 25lbs hanging off me to now doing 2x10 with 65lbs off me!!!! I'm hoping with those that I hit 90lbs off me at the end!!!

jetset · Oct 17, 2009

Just a question for you. How many working sets are you doing? Your saying 2 sets at this weigtht for this exercise. Whats the rest of your workout like?

PsyT · Oct 17, 2009

here's my workout! I do A and B workout. I do two A's and two B's each week! Each lift has about 2 warm up sets of progressive load (not fully taxing my muscle of course...just getting blood flowing). The work sets are all out...I have to mentally prepare myself before each set and focus my intentions and execute the movement....I try to toe the edge of 'possibility' for my body at the current moment.

A:
Pulldowns 2x6-12
Weighted Dips 2x6-12
Push Press 2x6-12
Pushdowns 2x6-12
BB Curls 2x6-12

B:
Box Squats 2x6-12 (touch and go's)
Leg Extensions 2x6-12
Ham Curls 2x6-12
Seated calf raises 2x6-12
Decline Crunches 2x6-12

Thats it! Unfortunately no deadlifts...I tried to throw them in back day but it was too much volume as I'm already hitting back hard on A day. I always add reps and or weight to each lift every day I do it. Its hard and I have to work my ass off outside the gym eating protein and resting in order to be ready to go again. Sometimes I will do lateral raises heavy after push presses but usually push press is enough for my delts honestly!

When I go off cycle I am contemplating cutting the volume down a little to a MON-WED-FRI schedule, where I rotate A and B (so one week 2 A's and 1 B and next week 2 B's and one A...repeat).

PsyT · Oct 17, 2009

I also do 15-20 minutes of cardio after lifting since I feel it is important for my overall health and plus it helps my metabolism so I am hungrier so i eat more and make quicker recovery.

PsyT · Oct 17, 2009

here's my diet if anybody can provide constructive criticism

9:00am:
15-20g Hemp or Flax Oil
5g Fish Oil
multivitamin
bowl of cereal
whey/gelatin/dextrose/orange juice shake (50gprotein/100g carbs)

11:00am:
Peanut Butter Sandwhich
glass of milk

1:00pm: during workout/PWO shake (sometimes I will also eat fruit too, bananas, apples, pears after workout)
whey/gelatin/dextrose shake (50g protein/100g carbs)
5g creatine
3g beta alanine

2:00:
peanut butter sandwhich (10g protein)
glass of milk (10g protein)

6:00:
8 ounces beef, chicken, etc (75g protein)
sweet potatoes or rice (30g carbs)
veggies
glass of milk (10g protein)
whey (25g protein)

9:00:
8 ounces beef, chicken, etc (75g protein)
whole wheat bun (30g carbs)
glass of milk (10g protein)
whey (25g)

11:00:
15-20g Hemp or Flax Oil
carton of egg whites (100g protein, sipped throughout night)

~400g protein/~360g carbs/~75g fat

jetset · Oct 18, 2009

Ok man here's my 2 cents. If thats your entire workout then the reason your not gain much size is your not doing enough for your entire body. Other than leg day your only doing one movement per body part and your only doing 2 working sets. Your not stimulating your upper body enough. I know everyone trains different but why are you training like this? Is there a reason your not seperating your body parts out? Just wondering. I also think your numbers on your protein are a litte off, I think 8oz of beef or chicken is more like 25-30 grams not 75. So back to your original question in this thread. I have always kept most of my strength after. You got to keep your diet and training in line. Just because your done doesn't mean you should back off of your intensity or eat less.

PsyT · Oct 18, 2009

good advice...I train like this because before when I was doing 3-5 sets per lift I was basically pounding myself into the ground with not enough recovery...that was without AAS...so perhaps I could do more sets...but still I think my volume is on target. I do 4 sets per week of heavy dips...thats enough for my chest and triceps to get stronger...I do 4 sets of heavy pulldowns...thats enough for my lats definitely! And 4 sets of box squats...thats 40 box squats a week!!!!!! Thats a lot of leg stimulation

I'll think about it...next year I am planning on getting somebody on this site that has a lot of experience to train me...like Shelby seems like a great option. I'd love feedback directly from a very experienced guy.

jetset · Oct 18, 2009

Whatever works for you man. Are you just trying to get stronger? Your still doing very little for each muscle group. Each muscle group is more complex than a one exercise routine. I've got 22 years of experience in the gym and i've done powerlifting and body building. Just my opinion bro your way under training and could get alot more out of what you are running. Just to give you an example of my chest routine, I do 4 exercises with 4-5 working sets of 12. But like I said if your liking your results then stick with what works for you. Just trying to help.

xxsuprman22xx · Oct 18, 2009

When off. My strength goes before size.

PsyT · Oct 18, 2009

aight well I'm just gonna try to push this shit as far as it possibly will go (no shit! haha). And then if I lose some I will still have gained some massive ground...so all will be well in the end.

I guess it comes down to how smart I am during PCT and the transition back to natty.

Jay.TD · Oct 21, 2009

PsyT said:
good advice...I train like this because before when I was doing 3-5 sets per lift I was basically pounding myself into the ground with not enough recovery...that was without AAS...so perhaps I could do more sets...but still I think my volume is on target. I do 4 sets per week of heavy dips...thats enough for my chest and triceps to get stronger...I do 4 sets of heavy pulldowns...thats enough for my lats definitely! And 4 sets of box squats...thats 40 box squats a week!!!!!! Thats a lot of leg stimulation

I'll think about it...next year I am planning on getting somebody on this site that has a lot of experience to train me...like Shelby seems like a great option. I'd love feedback directly from a very experienced guy.

Ik this is coming a little late, but if you want Mass gains you need to
"pouund yourself into the ground". You get mass because your breaking down the muscle and rebuilding it. You said you did 2 a's and 2 b's a week. Instead you got to mix it up. Don't do exactly the same workouts every week.. especially twice a week. It's called muscle confusion. Your muscles can become used to a lift and it won't gain as much as it would from a fresh/different one. Try.. instead of a and b, do something like:

day 1
chest
chest
chest
tri
tri
tri

day 2
your normal B workout but add more exercises for specific muscles..

day 3
back
back
back
bi
bi
bi

day 4
a variation of your b workout.

then on the following week try for day 1 chest and bi, and day 2 back and tris. You got to mix it up a little bit, and add more work outs. If your getting to the point where your pounding yourself into the ground after 1 exercise muscle(with or without aas, then you got to go a little lighter in weight, but do 3 exercises.

PsyT · Oct 22, 2009

aight

well I'm gonna think a little more on this...maybe I should tweak around my program...I am making great strength gains...I'm gonna up my fats (good fats) and carbs...I'm already eating 400g protein so I doubt thats my problem. I bet if I eat more carbs I'll straighten out the gains.