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Jordan Peters & Mike Israetel - Reps In Reserve

FK86

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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0qD9Y7nxeU"]165: Jordan Peters & Mike Israetel - Reps In Reserve - YouTube[/ame]
 

qbkilla

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I like mike israetel alot he is a likeable guy and very smart and knows his stuff. But I do find it odd that he (like lyle) is considered such an authority without looking the part. Does anyone else agree? Jp is huge. But mike doesn't look impressive nor is he ever been lean or coached anyone notable so how can he be such a trusted source of info? I know he has degrees and speaks at seminars but still. I prefer to follow the advice of someone like layne Norton. With that said I do respect mike and listen to his podcast just surprised how many top people follow him like he is a top guru.
 

Swifto

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I like mike israetel alot he is a likeable guy and very smart and knows his stuff. But I do find it odd that he (like lyle) is considered such an authority without looking the part. Does anyone else agree? Jp is huge. But mike doesn't look impressive nor is he ever been lean or coached anyone notable so how can he be such a trusted source of info? I know he has degrees and speaks at seminars but still. I prefer to follow the advice of someone like layne Norton. With that said I do respect mike and listen to his podcast just surprised how many top people follow him like he is a top guru.
I always have a hard time understanding people with this logic.

Some of the most intelligent people that have ever written about anabolic steroids don't look like bodybuilders nor are "huge" or have won national shows or Mr Olympias.

Can you not be a rocket scientist if you have not been to space?
 

qbkilla

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I always have a hard time understanding people with this logic.

Some of the most intelligent people that have ever written about anabolic steroids don't look like bodybuilders nor are "huge" or have won national shows or Mr Olympias.

Can you not be a rocket scientist if you have not been to space?
True points, why I pointed out though that if someone doesn't have the look, I like to see that they have coached competitors. Knowing alot of science is good, but take lyle McDonald for example, has he ever coached anyone to a contest? But he is one of the most followed "Authority" on diet.

We can definitely learn from these guys, but what about when their methods or philosophy opposes what actual coaches or competitors do, which it often does? Or if it opposes what has shown to work over time? I would tend to listen to what has been proven to work in athletes over scientific theories.
 

USMuscle9403

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I like mike israetel alot he is a likeable guy and very smart and knows his stuff. But I do find it odd that he (like lyle) is considered such an authority without looking the part. Does anyone else agree? Jp is huge. But mike doesn't look impressive nor is he ever been lean or coached anyone notable so how can he be such a trusted source of info? I know he has degrees and speaks at seminars but still. I prefer to follow the advice of someone like layne Norton. With that said I do respect mike and listen to his podcast just surprised how many top people follow him like he is a top guru.
Mike Israetel doesn't have a bad physique, or he at least used to be fairly impressive. Lyle Mcdonald looks like he at least tries to stay in half decent shape. Hany Rambod always made me laugh, though, just looks like a short fat guy...LOL...yet turns out some of best conditioned guys. And let's not forget about Dan Duchaine, but there's a reason these guys are highly respected and it has nothing to do with their own physiques. I can see where you're coming from, though.
 

qbkilla

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Mike Israetel doesn't have a bad physique, or he at least used to be fairly impressive. Lyle Mcdonald looks like he at least tries to stay in half decent shape. Hany Rambod always made me laugh, though, just looks like a short fat guy...LOL...yet turns out some of best conditioned guys. And let's not forget about Dan Duchaine, but there's a reason these guys are highly respected and it has nothing to do with their own physiques. I can see where you're coming from, though.
With rambod I put him in a different category as he trains jay cutler, where israetel and McDonald I don't know if they have trained any competitors? Now if israetel trains actual athletes who competes in sports (he may im not sure) than that gives him a good bit of credibility.

One example I can give is Israetel basically says that training volume is the biggest cause of hypertrophy, and he says you should deload every 5 weeks. But he does not have a top physique and I don't know of anyone who he has coached who does. But, there are tons of guys out there who do have top physiques who have done the opposite of what he says, which is train balls to the wall much more than 4 out of 5 weeks and who lift shit heavy weight to failure and believe that their size is due to getting stronger over time, not just adding volume in a mess cycle. So there is proof that the opposite of what he says works well, but no proof that what he does say, works well.
 

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I like mike israetel alot he is a likeable guy and very smart and knows his stuff. But I do find it odd that he (like lyle) is considered such an authority without looking the part. Does anyone else agree? Jp is huge. But mike doesn't look impressive nor is he ever been lean or coached anyone notable so how can he be such a trusted source of info? I know he has degrees and speaks at seminars but still. I prefer to follow the advice of someone like layne Norton. With that said I do respect mike and listen to his podcast just surprised how many top people follow him like he is a top guru.


Nobody is an authority on anything in this game. You should pay attention to the smart guys; and come to your own conclusions.

Inter individuality is rather a big portion of bodybuilding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fitzchivalry

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and he says you should deload every 5 weeks. .
Has he recently said this? I haven't heard him say to do that in such a short time period.

I agree with the training part, it is hard for me to wrap my mind around someone who looked so bad in his only try at doing a contest (self-admitedly). He has looked much better when he has cut down lately, but has a bad shape to his chest so he will never have a great physique.

I don't know of any pros that do it specifically but I do know of several good physiques that do similar and he/RP has a lot of transformations on "regular" people. Jeff Rodriguez appeared to be basing his training on the meso idea last time he competed.

I like the way he sets things up, though. As posted often, a lot of things work. Can you stick to it?
 

qbkilla

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Has he recently said this? I haven't heard him say to do that in such a short time period.

I agree with the training part, it is hard for me to wrap my mind around someone who looked so bad in his only try at doing a contest (self-admitedly). He has looked much better when he has cut down lately, but has a bad shape to his chest so he will never have a great physique.

I don't know of any pros that do it specifically but I do know of several good physiques that do similar and he/RP has a lot of transformations on "regular" people. Jeff Rodriguez appeared to be basing his training on the meso idea last time he competed.

I like the way he sets things up, though. As posted often, a lot of things work. Can you stick to it?
I could be wrong, I believe it is 4 weeks loading then 1 week deload. Nothing against it, but how many guys got huge by just adding weight each week for much longer and going to failure? They actually talk about it in the video. One reason I like mike he is open to lots of ideas and not defensive, I just find his personal recommendations not to be ideal based on real world results. But they are solid as a way to prevent overtraining injury etc, just less than ideal and a little too cautious for my taste.
 

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Another load of BS that JP will make into an e-book and sell to people.
 

Capin

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These soo called guru's are just high end drug dealers.
I'm not taking advise from anyone who has not been there done that.
 

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Dr Mike does have a respectable physique
https://imgur.com/gallery/aw1W9Vx
thats the one picture Mike puts up and thats the best hes ever looked in his life.

I understand that he is in OK shape but when he made a comment about, "guys like u and me to JP" i laughed out loud. The problem with Mike is that he has never trained anyone notable either. Hes better for the regular joe. JP is a monster...and u cant even put Lyle into that category because Lyle was an early science guy and never talked gear. Lyle never claimed to be discussing things that relate to big BBers....for some reason Mike does and it annoys me hah
 

FK86

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Mike completely monopolized that conversation. I kept waiting for Jordan to lay the smack down, but it didn’t happen. I didn’t find the podcast all that informative. It’s nothing that I’m sure many of us didn’t already know. Instagram is raving about it and I think it just makes them happy to have reassurance that they might still be able to make gains by pussing out on their sets.

Some interesting observations I’d like to comment on. I like that they discussed that some people just do not have what it takes to go to true failure. Weightlifting aside, some people are wired to do one of two things when their back is against the wall

1. Push forward
2. Retreat

Regarding recovery and burnout; Jordan discussed training partners not being able to keep up. He himself has consistently pushed his limits over the last 6 or 7 years. I remember reading old posts where he stated he was doing DC training and then he branched off and moved on to his own version of upper/lower and then push/pull/legs. If you look at these workouts from the past you can tell he wanted to see if he could maintain DC intensity at an even higher frequency.

This is very similar to the DC two-way split, with a day off between sessions and utilizing two straight work sets. July 2013
https://www.facebook.com/TrainedByJ...-split-is-so-damn-effective-/488128694606019/

This is the same concept, but now done over four days. April 2016
https://www.facebook.com/TrainedByJ...f-us-is-to-look-and-feel-goo/990945797657637/

Jordan was able to recover from this. Most people, including myself, could not. I know because I’ve tried. I learned the hard way why DC is a 3 day a week program and when I refer to recovery I’m talking about the nervous system. He then moved on to slightly increased volume push/pull/legs done on a 3 on 1 off rotation. So it’s clear that Jordan is advanced, but let’s define advanced. Is advanced time served in the gym? If so, then I’m advanced. Except I’m not. My physique and the weights I lift would be considered intermediate at best. I think advanced should encompass not only the genetics to build muscle better, but also to genetically have a nervous system that can recover better than most people. The argument for reps in reserve is to spare the nervous system while still maximally stimulating the muscle, but for some people they just might not get anywhere unless they redline. The best solution to this problem is a full day off between sessions. Big A’s and Dante’s programs implement that. Training three days a week is the best change I’ve made. Anyone with sleep issues should try taking two weeks completely off from the gym and then try a three day program when they return and monitor their sleep, mood, and progress.

My own experience with a reps in reserve based program was Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1. I ran it half a dozen times and it did not deliver the results I’d hoped for. The concept made sense to me; you initially start with weights lower than normal and over time the momentum of adding weight should induce gains. So in the initial weeks you will always make your rep and weight goals due to waving down and the sets being submaximal. However, it’s very frustrating when after months and months you finally come up to the workout where you’re supposed to be ahead of your initial starting point and you’re not. A waste of time. Mike’s approach is no different than Jim’s or a 5x5 program. Some 5x5’s entail doing the five sets with the same weight, so obviously the first three or four it’s guaranteed you’ll complete all reps as you are stopping at five reps regardless. I dislike how Mike came across like this stuff has never been discussed before when it’s been the basis of so many programs since the 1940’s.

Jordan posted on IG today a clip from that podcast and someone asked him if he’s going to train RIR. His response was that he cannot get any stronger, so he needs to drive volume to get bigger. Get bigger? I’m going to coin a new bodybuilding term here: he looks compressed. He is so huge and thick it looks like he’s going to explode in this picture. It seems he’s willing to accept he’s reached his own personal ceiling on strength development, but not on size. I think he should keep training the way he does, but either increase his reps or change their cadence. For example if he’s hack squatting every plate in the gym, maybe grab half the plates and spend 5 seconds in the bucket on each rep then work his way up in progression.
 

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Sandpig

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With rambod I put him in a different category as he trains jay cutler, where israetel and McDonald I don't know if they have trained any competitors? Now if israetel trains actual athletes who competes in sports (he may im not sure) than that gives him a good bit of credibility.



One example I can give is Israetel basically says that training volume is the biggest cause of hypertrophy, and he says you should deload every 5 weeks. But he does not have a top physique and I don't know of anyone who he has coached who does. But, there are tons of guys out there who do have top physiques who have done the opposite of what he says, which is train balls to the wall much more than 4 out of 5 weeks and who lift shit heavy weight to failure and believe that their size is due to getting stronger over time, not just adding volume in a mess cycle. So there is proof that the opposite of what he says works well, but no proof that what he does say, works well.
Seriously with the Rambod trains Jay? What did Hany do? Definitely didn't make him any bigger.

How long did Jay stay with him? One, two years tops?



Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
 

qbkilla

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Mike completely monopolized that conversation. I kept waiting for Jordan to lay the smack down, but it didn’t happen. I didn’t find the podcast all that informative. It’s nothing that I’m sure many of us didn’t already know. Instagram is raving about it and I think it just makes them happy to have reassurance that they might still be able to make gains by pussing out on their sets.

Some interesting observations I’d like to comment on. I like that they discussed that some people just do not have what it takes to go to true failure. Weightlifting aside, some people are wired to do one of two things when their back is against the wall

1. Push forward
2. Retreat

Regarding recovery and burnout; Jordan discussed training partners not being able to keep up. He himself has consistently pushed his limits over the last 6 or 7 years. I remember reading old posts where he stated he was doing DC training and then he branched off and moved on to his own version of upper/lower and then push/pull/legs. If you look at these workouts from the past you can tell he wanted to see if he could maintain DC intensity at an even higher frequency.

This is very similar to the DC two-way split, with a day off between sessions and utilizing two straight work sets. July 2013
https://www.facebook.com/TrainedByJ...-split-is-so-damn-effective-/488128694606019/

This is the same concept, but now done over four days. April 2016
https://www.facebook.com/TrainedByJ...f-us-is-to-look-and-feel-goo/990945797657637/

Jordan was able to recover from this. Most people, including myself, could not. I know because I’ve tried. I learned the hard way why DC is a 3 day a week program and when I refer to recovery I’m talking about the nervous system. He then moved on to slightly increased volume push/pull/legs done on a 3 on 1 off rotation. So it’s clear that Jordan is advanced, but let’s define advanced. Is advanced time served in the gym? If so, then I’m advanced. Except I’m not. My physique and the weights I lift would be considered intermediate at best. I think advanced should encompass not only the genetics to build muscle better, but also to genetically have a nervous system that can recover better than most people. The argument for reps in reserve is to spare the nervous system while still maximally stimulating the muscle, but for some people they just might not get anywhere unless they redline. The best solution to this problem is a full day off between sessions. Big A’s and Dante’s programs implement that. Training three days a week is the best change I’ve made. Anyone with sleep issues should try taking two weeks completely off from the gym and then try a three day program when they return and monitor their sleep, mood, and progress.

My own experience with a reps in reserve based program was Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1. I ran it half a dozen times and it did not deliver the results I’d hoped for. The concept made sense to me; you initially start with weights lower than normal and over time the momentum of adding weight should induce gains. So in the initial weeks you will always make your rep and weight goals due to waving down and the sets being submaximal. However, it’s very frustrating when after months and months you finally come up to the workout where you’re supposed to be ahead of your initial starting point and you’re not. A waste of time. Mike’s approach is no different than Jim’s or a 5x5 program. Some 5x5’s entail doing the five sets with the same weight, so obviously the first three or four it’s guaranteed you’ll complete all reps as you are stopping at five reps regardless. I dislike how Mike came across like this stuff has never been discussed before when it’s been the basis of so many programs since the 1940’s.

Jordan posted on IG today a clip from that podcast and someone asked him if he’s going to train RIR. His response was that he cannot get any stronger, so he needs to drive volume to get bigger. Get bigger? I’m going to coin a new bodybuilding term here: he looks compressed. He is so huge and thick it looks like he’s going to explode in this picture. It seems he’s willing to accept he’s reached his own personal ceiling on strength development, but not on size. I think he should keep training the way he does, but either increase his reps or change their cadence. For example if he’s hack squatting every plate in the gym, maybe grab half the plates and spend 5 seconds in the bucket on each rep then work his way up in progression.
This is a good post. The only thing I can add, that I feel once someone gets very strong, it may be wise to try and gain by not getting so much stronger and pushing themselves just due to the potential of injury. it only takes 1 time to tear a pec, labrum, etc. So that is one advantage of stopping worrying about getting stronger and focus on volume or other things to drive growth. however I think starting out everyone should try to get strong first and that will lead to accumulation of size the fastest.

Personally I feel like I have very good recovery ability, im never sore, I never need to deload. But my physique is not impressive, I just don't have that 3d pop in my muscles, which is all genetics. I have a friend who is massive and weak and trains like a pussy, always. Genetics LOL.
 

qbkilla

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Seriously with the Rambod trains Jay? What did Hany do? Definitely didn't make him any bigger.

How long did Jay stay with him? One, two years tops?



Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
I could be wrong, I don't really follow professional bodybuilding so I only see what I read on the forums when im researching gear, diet, etc.

Is Rambod still considered a "guru"? Does anyone actually use his FST7 and did It get good reviews when people did? I did do it for a while and didn't notice anything special, including the pump was not all that great. I much prefer Layne Nortons PHAT routine as the best routine I have used. I am gaining tons of strength, quickly, while in reduced calories. Not sure what the general opinion of Norton is but he does check some boxes for me. Good physique, has been very lean, seems like a smart guy (vs a meathead) and doesn't really overcomplicate things with science talk. I know he has another routine I think it is called the PHUL but I do the PHAT over it because it is supposed to be more for hypertrophy. I also have did the 5x5 when I started and made amazing strength gains. hard to say how good a BBing routine was because I was permabulking so I got both big and fat.
 

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Most guys train using reps in reserve and don’t realize it because there was never a name for it. John Meadows programs use it as well. I have his taskmaster program and he talks about reps in reserve also know as RPE. For example, in an incline barbell bench John suggests doing

205 8 .. 3 reps in reserve
225 8 .. 2 reps in reserve
245 8 .. 0-1 reps in reserve

Mike just coined the term but people have been training this way forever.
 

TheOtherOne55

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Most guys train using reps in reserve and don’t realize it because there was never a name for it. John Meadows programs use it as well. I have his taskmaster program and he talks about reps in reserve also know as RPE. For example, in an incline barbell bench John suggests doing



205 8 .. 3 reps in reserve

225 8 .. 2 reps in reserve

245 8 .. 0-1 reps in reserve



Mike just coined the term but people have been training this way forever.


I agree, it’s nothing new here.

As far as JPs program style, I made the best gains in my life running his style. If u cannot do this, you don’t have recovery abilities. Simple as that.

I trained the multiple sets bp split for years and got stuck. Soon as I pushed progressive loads and fell in love with the log book I exploded.

This obviously comes down personal experience and /or ability to push themselves. It’s allll very individual and is simply trial and error. In my experience it’s great to flip back and forth.


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Fa Seeshus

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I need no evidence of a coach's applied knowledge...

Guru backwards= U(you) R(are) UG (huuuge)
 

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