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Juice and INR

I can't find anything that says Plavix can be used in my situation. Also I am on 3 drugs that interact with it. I will still ask but I know.you cant.use.exrelto which is in the same class of drugs as plavix. I.do however still appreciate the.input!
 
Xarelto and Eliquis are not the same as Plavix. Plavix prevents platelets from forming clots Eliquis blocks a protein that helps form blood clots.
 
Respectfully, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.
There is no indication for warfarin where plavix or prasugrel are alternatives to treatment. And the reverse is also true. There is no role for warfarin in someone who just recieved cardiac stents (at least not for the stents themselves, the person may have another indication for warfarin though).
Plavix and prasugrel inhibit platelets and are used after cardiac stent placement (or even stents placed peripherally) and also for other problems caused by significant atherosclerosis/narrowing of blood vessels throughout the body.
Warfarin is an anticoagulant and does nothing to platelet function. Antiplatelet medications do not confer thromboembolism risk reduction in the setting of mechanical prosthetic valves, particularly not a prosthetic mitral valve, which has the highest risk for thromboembolism hence the higher INR goal range compared to a prosthetic aortic valve, for example. To my knowledge, a trial of antiplatelet meds for thromboembolism risk reduction has never even been attempted with a mechanical mitral valve and the various trials done on valves in the aortic position, which has lower risk, have all failed. Please do not try to trade from warfarin to plavix. Your doc wont let you anyway and it would be wildly foolish to do on your own.
This is not to say that there are not people on both warfarin and an antiplatelet medication (like plavix) but the indications for each drug are different and again, not interchangeable.
Warfarin can be a bitch because it interacts with many many drugs and this can either raise or lower the INR. The first step is to make sure your dietary intake of vit K is not variable. It does not have to be low, just don't let it be all over the place. You can have leafy greens every day, just make sure you have them nearly every day. This would likely result in you needing a higher dose of warfarin but the end result might be a less labile INR.

Since you're running gear/various compounds you should see if your doc will approve you for a home INR machine. There's at least one on the market and this would allow you to check your INR at home weekly instead of just once a month or whatever at the clinic. Also, if you introduce a new compound you can test yourself after a few days to see what's up with your INR.

Neither vit K nor leafy greens are contraindicated in someone taking warfarin. You just need to be consistent. Again, your warfarin dose might need to be a little higher if you eat greens every day, or even take a daily vit K supplement, but the INR is still the INR. Changes like that to your diet/ supplementation should be done under close supervision but as i mentioned above, the end result might be a less labile INR as the vit K level in your diet would now be much less variable. Too many healthy foods have vit K so it is not worth it to avoid them altogether, IMO.
Also, vit K is the appropriate "reversal" agent to be given in the setting of a markedly supratherapeutic INR. If you were actually bleeding they would have given you plasma in addition to the vit K.

I am surpised you listed anadrol as a compound that did not raise your INR. Due to the strain on the liver, oral AAS would be more likely to raise your INR than injectable ones.

Sorry for the long-ass post. See if you can get a home INR machine. You need to establish yourself as a capable patient and the incidents with you having the high INRs might actually help your case, making the argument that you'd benefit from closer monitoring and could be trusted to do it weekly.
 
Xarelto and Eliquis are not the same as Plavix. Plavix prevents platelets from forming clots Eliquis blocks a protein that helps form blood clots.
Truth. And sadly, xarelto and eliquis, while being anticoagulants (same class as warfarin) have also failed in trials to replace warfarin for mechanical valves. Xarelto and eliquis each inhibit one clotting factor, warfarin reduces at least 4. (The vit K dependent factors, II, VII, IX and X. Also inhibits proteins C and S but these are actually endogenous anticoagulants) Xarelto and eliquis inhibit factor Xa (from memory, too lazy to look it up right now)
Plavix inhibits platelets, no effect on the clotting cascade. CANNOT replace an anticoagulant
 
You seem pretty knowledgeable about medical stuff do you work in that field out of.curiosity?
I have a medical degree and yes do work in the industry. I work with some of the top cardiologist in the Country as well and have a heavy family history of heart problems.

It sounds like you are on a lot of medications as I suspected and have deeper things going on as I stated in my initial post response.

As @bg65 said and myself you need to sit down and go through things with your cardiologist given your situation and the number of meds you are on.

Also, a “consistent” amount of vitamin k would entail not supplementing or eating more while on the medication. Same thing I have been stating, not misinformation.

But you’re on a lot of meds for many reasons. Only your cardiologist who has your full health history and medications list can best guide you. Not guys on a bodybuilding forum with partial information. 😊
 
stack are you using Nattokinase, Ibuprofen or any other NSAID's?
 
While again I do appreciate everyone taking the time to post I do understand that having fluctuating vitamin k levels can have an impact on inr levels and very sadly that I cannot take that sweet sweet ibuprofen or nsaids. Though man my mouth waters just talking about ibuprofen as I am stuck with acetaminophen and that's kind of a shitty painkiller even for a headache. Nattokinase i'd honestly have to google to see what it was but no I am not taking it.

I am kinda on a lot of drugs due to depression, anxiety, insomania and really just warfarin for my heart valve. I had my heart valve done and then 2 years later got rhabdo bad then was able to train for 7 months then hurt my shoulder and was out for 11 months so I have lost a significant amount of muscle. So I maybe been back training 2 months and am kinda getting to a point where I can start to push things a bit. Since I had my heart surgery I have been able to train 9-11 months total but I hope I am good for awhile. Just got to get this shit figured out!

@bg65 thank you for taking the time to post all the information you did it was very informative, I will talk to my Dr about getting an INR machine for the home and see if my insurance will cover and how it would work exactly. I think they are like a grand so even if I had to pay for one myself it would probably be a wise decision. Also since you were surprised anadrol did not affect my INR have you personally seen situations where juice does effect INR. If so any kind specifically?

@bbxtreme thank you for taking the time to post as much as you did as well you don't know how bad i'd like to get rid of the dr visits from the warfarin and congrats on the medical degree I had no idea!! And you said you have never seen juice effect INR in your work, is that correct?

I am only asking because there are other things I have done like switched protein brands. While my cardiologist has the say in what medications i take my GP does the actual monitoring of my INR and I have gotten a new one of those as well. I was mainly taking viagra and now I mainly take cialis.. Honestly if its the juice i kinda just want to supplement with a little bit of vitamin K and see if that will normalize things..lol yes I know that is a bad idea but it might be a good one

Again thanks to everyone who replied and if anyone has anymore ideas, even if they seem basic or monkeyish please do not hesitate to post.
 
Respectfully, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.
There is no indication for warfarin where plavix or prasugrel are alternatives to treatment. And the reverse is also true. There is no role for warfarin in someone who just recieved cardiac stents (at least not for the stents themselves, the person may have another indication for warfarin though).
Plavix and prasugrel inhibit platelets and are used after cardiac stent placement (or even stents placed peripherally) and also for other problems caused by significant atherosclerosis/narrowing of blood vessels throughout the body.
Warfarin is an anticoagulant and does nothing to platelet function. Antiplatelet medications do not confer thromboembolism risk reduction in the setting of mechanical prosthetic valves, particularly not a prosthetic mitral valve, which has the highest risk for thromboembolism hence the higher INR goal range compared to a prosthetic aortic valve, for example. To my knowledge, a trial of antiplatelet meds for thromboembolism risk reduction has never even been attempted with a mechanical mitral valve and the various trials done on valves in the aortic position, which has lower risk, have all failed. Please do not try to trade from warfarin to plavix. Your doc wont let you anyway and it would be wildly foolish to do on your own.
This is not to say that there are not people on both warfarin and an antiplatelet medication (like plavix) but the indications for each drug are different and again, not interchangeable.
Warfarin can be a bitch because it interacts with many many drugs and this can either raise or lower the INR. The first step is to make sure your dietary intake of vit K is not variable. It does not have to be low, just don't let it be all over the place. You can have leafy greens every day, just make sure you have them nearly every day. This would likely result in you needing a higher dose of warfarin but the end result might be a less labile INR.

Since you're running gear/various compounds you should see if your doc will approve you for a home INR machine. There's at least one on the market and this would allow you to check your INR at home weekly instead of just once a month or whatever at the clinic. Also, if you introduce a new compound you can test yourself after a few days to see what's up with your INR.

Neither vit K nor leafy greens are contraindicated in someone taking warfarin. You just need to be consistent. Again, your warfarin dose might need to be a little higher if you eat greens every day, or even take a daily vit K supplement, but the INR is still the INR. Changes like that to your diet/ supplementation should be done under close supervision but as i mentioned above, the end result might be a less labile INR as the vit K level in your diet would now be much less variable. Too many healthy foods have vit K so it is not worth it to avoid them altogether, IMO.
Also, vit K is the appropriate "reversal" agent to be given in the setting of a markedly supratherapeutic INR. If you were actually bleeding they would have given you plasma in addition to the vit K.

I am surpised you listed anadrol as a compound that did not raise your INR. Due to the strain on the liver, oral AAS would be more likely to raise your INR than injectable ones.

Sorry for the long-ass post. See if you can get a home INR machine. You need to establish yourself as a capable patient and the incidents with you having the high INRs might actually help your case, making the argument that you'd benefit from closer monitoring and could be trusted to do it weekly.
Great post. Interesting.Yes warfin is a pain in the ass. Weekly test is how it is supposed to be done. Im on Plavix and Eliquis. Stents and afib.
 
Well I went to get inr checked last monday. I had quit taking all juice and warfarin and hit a 1.5. They put me on 2mgs day warfarin and I switched to eq and test 1.2ml t400 and 1.8ml 250mgs eq 2x week. Today I told them I had been taking nattokinase and I didn't read the label that said don't take with blood thinners. Told them I felt like such an idiot and I know I have to watch what I take better than that. Anyway I pulled a 1.2 Today and they told me my cardiologist might have to monitor it since they cant get it in range. I prolly will just get another Dr if they actually want a new in network and not my current cardiologist to manage it which is what.they said. I am also getting my own monitor
 

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