.gif "IP Gear")
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2002
- Messages
- 8,897
okay...here is another theory for ya. a buddy of mine is visiting from out of town. i have written about him in the past. he is a professor of exercise phys in a well know university and a competitve bodybuilder. he has his phd and is a very intelligent guy. very analytical to say the least. anyway here is what he believes.
first off, he is 5'9 and 222 pounds. very lean. bodyfat is in the single digits year round. he has entered and done well in local contests in the western states. so, in other words, he knows how to apply his education to work for him. although he has a habit of trying to lose to much weight before a show which sometimes turns around and bits him. his routine is not the "norm" in many ways. he does no to little isolation work. he believes that it is not what nature intended. he believes in working all combination movements which he feels are safer and more effective. he also does not believe in bodypart training. since one can not isolate the chest from the delts and tri's he believes in just pushing days and pulling days.
his first day will involve all the pushing muscles. he will work the chest shoulders and triceps in one workout but, not with any isolation movements. his second day will involve all pulling movements involving back traps and biceps. his third day will involve legs by themselves. here is a example:
day 1: benchpress 5 sets of 5 to 7 reps incline press 3 sets of 5 to 7 reps standing military press 5 sets 10 to 5 reps standing behind the neck press 3 sets 5 to 10 reps dips 3 sets 8 to 12 reps
day 2 : barbell rows 5 sets 5 to 10 reps rack pulls 3 sets 3 to 5 reps chins to front 3 sets max db row 3 sets rear delt fly (the only isolation movement he does consistently) shrugs 3 sets 10 to 5 reps
day 3 : squats 5 sets 10 to 5 reps leg press 3 sets 8 to 12 reps stiff legged deads 3 sets 10 to 5 reps calf raise on leg press 3 sets 8 to 12 reps. seated calf raise 3 sets 8 to 12 reps.
abs are worked twice a week with just incline sit ups weighted.
he does not believe in arm work since he figures "it is a waste of time". he told me that he does not believe in the arm work because after rowing an ton of weight and chinning which kill the biceps, what the use in doing isolation curls with 40 pound db's when you just handles 315 in the row. what one did the most damage to the arm flexors?? he feels the same way about tricep training. why bother to do tricep work when the presses is what give the mass anyway. he said "benching 350 for reps is more effective for the triceps than doing all the pushdowns in the world" he just does not want to waste time in his opinion on isolation movements.
he does not believe in isolation movements for any body part though. only the rear delts because he does them more for injury prevention than anything else being that the front delts are being hit with more volume.
the big reason why most guys fail to reach their mass goals , in his opinion , is because they do not realize the need for progressive poundage. the reason why jay cutler is bigger than you is that hes stronger than you. so my friend believes that doing isolation movements is a waste of his ebergy and takes away from his recup abilities. he feels the pushing and pulling groupings is a must because it allows all the muscle that work in unisen to have the same recup time as each other. he does believe that one can hit a "grouping" twice a week in this program as opposed to once a week when bodyparts are spread out. when he comes back in to do his pushing workout he will sometimes reverse the order and do his shoulder movements first and follow with his chest movements. he does not concern himself with the drop in chest poundage doing it this way since the shoulders are now being hit harder. the drop in chest poundage just allows for a little more recup for his chest in the long run.
he is not opposed to mixing it up and varying the order of his workouts in the second half of the week since they all hit the same groups anyway. if done heavy and hard "your biceps should have nothing left" for doing curls. as you can tell his workouts are based on the principal of muscle are all working synergistically and there is no need to to try and isolate them. but, make them work togther to handle the most weight possible. the more weight you handle in the bech the more mass you have in the delts, chest and triceps. same goes for the row. the more weight in the row the bigger the lats rear delt, traps and biceps... he told me when he trains the squat or leg press he does not think about it hitting the quad. he thinks about what it does to the whole leg. the more weight the more mass in the hams, glutes and quads. not just the quad itself.
one study he sights to emphasize his point is one he did years ago using emg. he wanted to find the best deltoid movement out there. he did a slue of movements using a wrestler at the university. isolation movements registered very little elctrical activity. only a average of in the 60 to 65 % range. he found presses done in a seated position were also not high in the activity range probably due to the fact that the chest in the seated position can come into play and relieve the delts. but, military presses in the standing position registered the highest of all activity. even in the side delts. why? well the theory goes like this. as humans when we press something over head we never do it in the "seated position" we are usually standing. he said that when we press in the standing position as we reach about head level we shift our upper body forward which brings the side deltoid into play and help stabilize the weight. the weight then comes to rest in alignment wit the middle of our head which puts the delt in a peak contraction state. as we lower the weight we reverse the movement which will throw the emphasis on the front delt and traps. this natural movement can not be done in a seated position. instead we have a tendency to lean back into the pad and press which brings alot of pec minor into play. the amount of weight is decreased in the standing position because of more emphasis on the total delt. the lessening of the weight is actuallty a good thing since the load ids going were we want it. no amount of laterals , he said, can bring that kind of activity to play. i guarantee ronnie got his delts from 315 pound militarys more than 60 laterals.
i am not saying he is right but, he does make sense. anyway it gives us something to think about and work into a program for a change.
first off, he is 5'9 and 222 pounds. very lean. bodyfat is in the single digits year round. he has entered and done well in local contests in the western states. so, in other words, he knows how to apply his education to work for him. although he has a habit of trying to lose to much weight before a show which sometimes turns around and bits him. his routine is not the "norm" in many ways. he does no to little isolation work. he believes that it is not what nature intended. he believes in working all combination movements which he feels are safer and more effective. he also does not believe in bodypart training. since one can not isolate the chest from the delts and tri's he believes in just pushing days and pulling days.
his first day will involve all the pushing muscles. he will work the chest shoulders and triceps in one workout but, not with any isolation movements. his second day will involve all pulling movements involving back traps and biceps. his third day will involve legs by themselves. here is a example:
day 1: benchpress 5 sets of 5 to 7 reps incline press 3 sets of 5 to 7 reps standing military press 5 sets 10 to 5 reps standing behind the neck press 3 sets 5 to 10 reps dips 3 sets 8 to 12 reps
day 2 : barbell rows 5 sets 5 to 10 reps rack pulls 3 sets 3 to 5 reps chins to front 3 sets max db row 3 sets rear delt fly (the only isolation movement he does consistently) shrugs 3 sets 10 to 5 reps
day 3 : squats 5 sets 10 to 5 reps leg press 3 sets 8 to 12 reps stiff legged deads 3 sets 10 to 5 reps calf raise on leg press 3 sets 8 to 12 reps. seated calf raise 3 sets 8 to 12 reps.
abs are worked twice a week with just incline sit ups weighted.
he does not believe in arm work since he figures "it is a waste of time". he told me that he does not believe in the arm work because after rowing an ton of weight and chinning which kill the biceps, what the use in doing isolation curls with 40 pound db's when you just handles 315 in the row. what one did the most damage to the arm flexors?? he feels the same way about tricep training. why bother to do tricep work when the presses is what give the mass anyway. he said "benching 350 for reps is more effective for the triceps than doing all the pushdowns in the world" he just does not want to waste time in his opinion on isolation movements.
he does not believe in isolation movements for any body part though. only the rear delts because he does them more for injury prevention than anything else being that the front delts are being hit with more volume.
the big reason why most guys fail to reach their mass goals , in his opinion , is because they do not realize the need for progressive poundage. the reason why jay cutler is bigger than you is that hes stronger than you. so my friend believes that doing isolation movements is a waste of his ebergy and takes away from his recup abilities. he feels the pushing and pulling groupings is a must because it allows all the muscle that work in unisen to have the same recup time as each other. he does believe that one can hit a "grouping" twice a week in this program as opposed to once a week when bodyparts are spread out. when he comes back in to do his pushing workout he will sometimes reverse the order and do his shoulder movements first and follow with his chest movements. he does not concern himself with the drop in chest poundage doing it this way since the shoulders are now being hit harder. the drop in chest poundage just allows for a little more recup for his chest in the long run.
he is not opposed to mixing it up and varying the order of his workouts in the second half of the week since they all hit the same groups anyway. if done heavy and hard "your biceps should have nothing left" for doing curls. as you can tell his workouts are based on the principal of muscle are all working synergistically and there is no need to to try and isolate them. but, make them work togther to handle the most weight possible. the more weight you handle in the bech the more mass you have in the delts, chest and triceps. same goes for the row. the more weight in the row the bigger the lats rear delt, traps and biceps... he told me when he trains the squat or leg press he does not think about it hitting the quad. he thinks about what it does to the whole leg. the more weight the more mass in the hams, glutes and quads. not just the quad itself.
one study he sights to emphasize his point is one he did years ago using emg. he wanted to find the best deltoid movement out there. he did a slue of movements using a wrestler at the university. isolation movements registered very little elctrical activity. only a average of in the 60 to 65 % range. he found presses done in a seated position were also not high in the activity range probably due to the fact that the chest in the seated position can come into play and relieve the delts. but, military presses in the standing position registered the highest of all activity. even in the side delts. why? well the theory goes like this. as humans when we press something over head we never do it in the "seated position" we are usually standing. he said that when we press in the standing position as we reach about head level we shift our upper body forward which brings the side deltoid into play and help stabilize the weight. the weight then comes to rest in alignment wit the middle of our head which puts the delt in a peak contraction state. as we lower the weight we reverse the movement which will throw the emphasis on the front delt and traps. this natural movement can not be done in a seated position. instead we have a tendency to lean back into the pad and press which brings alot of pec minor into play. the amount of weight is decreased in the standing position because of more emphasis on the total delt. the lessening of the weight is actuallty a good thing since the load ids going were we want it. no amount of laterals , he said, can bring that kind of activity to play. i guarantee ronnie got his delts from 315 pound militarys more than 60 laterals.
i am not saying he is right but, he does make sense. anyway it gives us something to think about and work into a program for a change.
