Liver enzymes causing confusion

[T TOTAL]

Any of you top guys got any ideas??
I regularly get my bloods done and all readings have been in the normal to top end of normal depending if on or off. Although my Urea and Creatinine readings are generally high due to my high protein diet.

This remained true up untill last summer when i entered my 1st show. Bloods immediately following this showed my ALT and AST as almost 3 x times the norm. I ended up going for a scan on my full stomach and all came back okay, ie no growths or fatty deposits etc in my liver. However the kidneys showed cysts i think which ive been told by the Dr is totally normal and are now showing up on scans due to the technology.

Anyway i managed to get my ALT/AST down to double the norm even when on but found it raised again on occasion. Ive concluded that this appears to be due to Tren use as when this only was stopped, which left test run alone my ALT/AST dropped right back down to just above normal, ie something like 50/60 or there abouts, my Dr has the precise readings. After this blood test i came toatally off and used SYNTHERGINE at 4ml orally for 5-6 weeks in an effort to get the readings within the normal range. I also used milk thistle 3 x 175mg 2-3 times per day as normal.

So after this i again went for bloods after not training for two days, normally i often train on the day before. The results have baffled me as both my ALT and AST have raised slightly. Although by only a few points, i did not expect this whatsoever and thought the inclsion of SYNTHERGINE would of done me the world of good in lowering them.

Any ideas??

 

[mike1107]

post it in the mainl professional muscle forum section dude, u'll have more answers than here

 

[oldfella]

Any of you top guys got any ideas??
I regularly get my bloods done and all readings have been in the normal to top end of normal depending if on or off. Although my Urea and Creatinine readings are generally high due to my high protein diet.

This remained true up untill last summer when i entered my 1st show. Bloods immediately following this showed my ALT and AST as almost 3 x times the norm. I ended up going for a scan on my full stomach and all came back okay, ie no growths or fatty deposits etc in my liver. However the kidneys showed cysts i think which ive been told by the Dr is totally normal and are now showing up on scans due to the technology.

Anyway i managed to get my ALT/AST down to double the norm even when on but found it raised again on occasion. Ive concluded that this appears to be due to Tren use as when this only was stopped, which left test run alone my ALT/AST dropped right back down to just above normal, ie something like 50/60 or there abouts, my Dr has the precise readings. After this blood test i came toatally off and used SYNTHERGINE at 4ml orally for 5-6 weeks in an effort to get the readings within the normal range. I also used milk thistle 3 x 175mg 2-3 times per day as normal.

So after this i again went for bloods after not training for two days, normally i often train on the day before. The results have baffled me as both my ALT and AST have raised slightly. Although by only a few points, i did not expect this whatsoever and thought the inclsion of SYNTHERGINE would of done me the world of good in lowering them.

Any ideas??

Did you/Are you using orals? if so these will elevate your counts greatly. They place an undue amount of stress/damage on the liver. As for your synthergine it should be used at a rate of 1ml per 55lbs of bw. so if you are over 200 I would use 5 mls p/day split into 2 doses. 2.5am, 2.5pm. if the liver has been damaged then alcohol consumption will also aggrevate and interfere with the repair process. Even if only in small amounts. I would say continue with the synthergine at a higher dose and watch your intake of saturated fats also. No alcohol, that's Zero consumption for a while and see where this gets you. BTW your creatinine levels will always be high if you are a regular trainer and train hard. This is why thet will show elevated.

 

[T TOTAL]

Thanks for the reply.
Havnt used orals for over a year since competing, then it was only anavar for 8 weeks with dbol and strombathe last 10days.
As for alcohol, i dont drink that much due to my shift work. Maybe once every 3rd week for a few. I hadnt had alcohol for two weeks when the test was done too.
Im currently 238 at 5'11" and when i think about it the SYNTHERGINE was about 2.3ml twice per day as i filled a 2 1/2 ml syringe up each time.
I was aware why the urea and creatinine was high. My Dr is of the opinion it may cause problems later in life.
So im still confused why the reading of the ATL and AST would go up at all.
Oh yeh as for fats, i eat a vry clean diet year round and saturated fats are very low.

 

[vadim_b1]

Weight training can cause those enzymes to go up. Has to do with muscle fiber damage and repair. To get a clear picture you have to take 2 weeks complete rest from training and do your bloodwork again.

 

[T TOTAL]

Cheers, i understand that enzymes in the liver are affected by training. However i wasn't going to take two weeks off for the bloods. Please bare in mind that the bloods are done consistantly in that i always go have them done on a day off from training and after a day when i trained. This time, although not much, but i went on my 2nd consecutive day off. I just cant get my head round why they would go up especially after being on synthergine ( which i read so much praise for ) and totally off everything else for 6weeks.
Perhaps mine are naturally high or shall i say just above normal and they had bottomed to that 6 weeks ago with Tren being dropped a couple weeks earlier and test a week prior to bloods and that the raise in ALT/AST points despite synthergine and clean was just a natural fluctuation

 

[vadim_b1]

Obviously there would be a difference in how intensive the training itself was. You can expect some significant elevation following and a few days after an intense leg day.

 

[T TOTAL]

Perhaps i was expecting to much from the synthergine and being off. Years ago i would never go out of the normal range, just moving from low end to high end of normal.

 

[STEEDA69]

Weight training can cause those enzymes to go up. Has to do with muscle fiber damage and repair. To get a clear picture you have to take 2 weeks complete rest from training and do your bloodwork again.

==========================================================

VERY true! I ran into some "elevated" numbers a few years back and someone else suggested that I take 4-5 days OFF any type of weightlifting OR strenuous exercise in general as they can result in elevated readings for some individuals. Since I incorporated this "time off" I've managed to get pretty sustained readings on my blood Smac's.

JD~

 

[BrooklynBB]

Any of you top guys got any ideas??
I regularly get my bloods done and all readings have been in the normal to top end of normal depending if on or off. Although my Urea and Creatinine readings are generally high due to my high protein diet.

This remained true up untill last summer when i entered my 1st show. Bloods immediately following this showed my ALT and AST as almost 3 x times the norm. I ended up going for a scan on my full stomach and all came back okay, ie no growths or fatty deposits etc in my liver. However the kidneys showed cysts i think which ive been told by the Dr is totally normal and are now showing up on scans due to the technology.

Anyway i managed to get my ALT/AST down to double the norm even when on but found it raised again on occasion. Ive concluded that this appears to be due to Tren use as when this only was stopped, which left test run alone my ALT/AST dropped right back down to just above normal, ie something like 50/60 or there abouts, my Dr has the precise readings. After this blood test i came toatally off and used SYNTHERGINE at 4ml orally for 5-6 weeks in an effort to get the readings within the normal range. I also used milk thistle 3 x 175mg 2-3 times per day as normal.

So after this i again went for bloods after not training for two days, normally i often train on the day before. The results have baffled me as both my ALT and AST have raised slightly. Although by only a few points, i did not expect this whatsoever and thought the inclsion of SYNTHERGINE would of done me the world of good in lowering them.

Any ideas??

I say TREN is the problem, not any oral you may have taken in the past. Once you stop taking orals, liver values always return to baseline - many studies have proven this. Tren is a yet to be fully investigated substance in humans and I think we should pay alot more attention to its toxicity on the human body and stop blaming other substances. Too many cases on this board alone prove to me that it's more toxic than any other chemical out there in terms of anabolics.

 

[T TOTAL]

Got to agree with you there Brooklyn BB, however it doesnt really explain why they went up slightly after being off all substances totally and ran Synthergine. Perhaps as mentioned before id reached my baseline readings prior to the Synthergine use, even though id literally stopped the test and that the slight increases were just natural daily variences from training, food atc as they wernt fasting bloods.
But yeh although Tren hardens me quickly along with rapid strength increases i feel it has to be that, for me anyway, that is toxic to my liver.