Liver Tumors/Hepatic Adenomas - Where Do I Go From Here

[gotgame]

I consulted with the head of Liver Surgery at Mount Sinai here in NYC and his team.
I mentioned to him about going further with a biopsy and he said for now its not completely nessecary, and to have a repeat MRI in 3 months. He said since I have multiple adenomas getting a biopsy from one of them won't tell the whole story.
There have been cases where patients had biopsies done and the adenomas differed from each other. Then again theres the risk of implications during the biopsy itself.

I was honest with him about everything regarding my use.
He made it clear that as long as I come off completely or go on proper trt dose, they should reduce in size and hopefully completely disappear in time and make a full recovery.

I know close to everyone at Sinai from surgery and if you had your MRI at Sinai 100% chance i know the person who read it. They mentioned biopsy for a reason however of course you cant biopsy all 12 and yes when you biopsy them they are likely to bleed..no..they will bleed. I have never done a liver biopsy that hasnt bled even when I gel foamed the tract etc.

As I said before I have also seen them reduce in size and in a few rare cases completely disappear however if it was my liver id get a biopsy of a few and then interval follow up. I do not like how they dont contain fat and thats the reason why.. yes you can have lipid poor adenomas..ive seen that plenty but for my liver id want tissue.

I would not even go on TRT if i were u. Id come off everything and go on an AI. I am pretty sure that last year they started doing MR elastography at sinai..well i know they are doing it as part of research but not sure if they are actively offering it as I am no longer there.

Please look up Beta catenin mutated hepatic adenomas. I spoke about this when a prior PM member likely had this and later died. I know the surgeons at Sinai..i know the radiologists... i know nearly every "expert" you might talk to, but i know steroids. So while it will almost certainly get smaller about stopping everything there are some valid underlying concerns. Please be safe and keep us posted.

 

[prodaf]

how are your white cells, red cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit ? i think very high ?
i hope you ll be better in a few time!

 

[Altair]

how are your white cells, red cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit ? i think very high ?
i hope you ll be better in a few time!

On the higher side, but nothing over borderline. Thanks

 

[Altair]

I know close to everyone at Sinai from surgery and if you had your MRI at Sinai 100% chance i know the person who read it. They mentioned biopsy for a reason however of course you cant biopsy all 12 and yes when you biopsy them they are likely to bleed..no..they will bleed. I have never done a liver biopsy that hasnt bled even when I gel foamed the tract etc.

As I said before I have also seen them reduce in size and in a few rare cases completely disappear however if it was my liver id get a biopsy of a few and then interval follow up. I do not like how they dont contain fat and thats the reason why.. yes you can have lipid poor adenomas..ive seen that plenty but for my liver id want tissue.

I would not even go on TRT if i were u. Id come off everything and go on an AI. I am pretty sure that last year they started doing MR elastography at sinai..well i know they are doing it as part of research but not sure if they are actively offering it as I am no longer there.

Please look up Beta catenin mutated hepatic adenomas. I spoke about this when a prior PM member likely had this and later died. I know the surgeons at Sinai..i know the radiologists... i know nearly every "expert" you might talk to, but i know steroids. So while it will almost certainly get smaller about stopping everything there are some valid underlying concerns. Please be safe and keep us posted.

I really appreciate all the feedback you've been providing so far, I'm extremely thankful.

I'm not going to lie this is discouraging to hear. Not using any anabolics EVER again is a very hard pill to swallow for ME personally.
I'll just have to take it step by step for now.

 

[TheRoid]

1. No tren.

Is Tren, in your clinical experience, worse than orals like Stanozolol or Oxymetholone on liver health?

 

[gotgame]

Is Tren, in your clinical experience, worse than orals like Stanozolol or Oxymetholone on liver health?

Its difficult to compare. Id say orals are worse though on the liver.

Tren does jack up liver enzymes on many. Id say tren is probably worse on the kidneys then most orals. Noo..im not talking about the old nonsense about parabolan im talking about via isolated systolic BP elevation and androgen induced FSGN

 

[thethinker48]

1. No tren.

2. keeping doses lower.

3. using REAL ancillaries and keep estrogen lower normal range.. and you know this by using real ancillaries and getting blood tests and using gear that is dosed correctly.

nothing you can really do to check for it.. other then sometimes getting a RUQ ultrasound. Nothing to look out for other then sudden and intense RUQ pain because it may have ruptured.

Taking GH can increase the risk for hepatoma conversion due to the nature of the adenomas so u gotta be real careful with that.

Did i mention using REAL ancillaries... damn research stuff thats fake has caused so many issues. Id rather a guy using UG gear then UG/research ancillaries.

When running supra-physiological doses of testosterone, it would make sense to have estrogen in the higher end of the spectrum otherwise symptoms of low E2 present themselves? What are your thoughts regarding this, and it's longterm effects? Obviously estrogen is higher due to a higher testosterone level, but would it present the same risk as someone having extremely high estrogen (say >200)

 

[Zarati]

what were your ALT AST?

 

[gotgame]

When running supra-physiological doses of testosterone, it would make sense to have estrogen in the higher end of the spectrum otherwise symptoms of low E2 present themselves? What are your thoughts regarding this, and it's longterm effects? Obviously estrogen is higher due to a higher testosterone level, but would it present the same risk as someone having extremely high estrogen (say >200)

Good question

When on test i think its fine as long as you are in the generally accepted normal range. The issue becomes at times its hard to control because guys may inject like 3ccs ( upwards of 750mgs of test) at at time and all at once you can get a huge surgery on aromatization. so even if you got some AI's on board it could overwhelm them ( especially if you already have higher fat levels thus more enzyme present).

if you are having symptoms of Low E2 id get it checked.. maybe you are lower outside the normal range or lower on the normal range but still having symptoms. Id be fine with backing off the AI a bit and letting your E2 levels trend a bit higher but still within range. Never outside above normal.


To keep it in range id dose your test more frequently and in smaller doses and id probably take an AI in smaller more consistent doses to make sure its always working. I know some guys who take an AI just twice a week and its probably not the best way becuase you may still get peaks and troughs like that.

Once you have been on for a bit with steady dosing id get some blood work and make adjustments as needed.

Id prefer legit aromasin as a first choice and then VERY low dose letro and then adex.

 

[gotgame]

Using AAS as a tool is a long term endeavor. And you have to be smart.


IF someone was to ever use UG steroids you wouldnt want it overdosed. Guys i see on here are like yay its dosed at 320mg instead of the listed 250... fuck that! I dont want it underdose or overdose. I want whats on the damn label so i can plan everything accordingly.

The key to safe cycling is low to moderate doses, using things smart and undertstanding how they work. Give yourself a boost, eat well and lift consistently ( means staying injury free) and you will make incredible gains over the long term and be healthy.

its the idiots you blast all types of shit and pig out and lift like idiots who give bodybuilders a bad name. Use smart, be responsible and lift for a long time and have a health life as a really jacked healthy guy.

 

[needthepump]

You don't know what caused it? I am going to go out on a limb here and say the high dosages of steroids did. If you keep using you will die. It is not worth it. Thank you for being honest about the dosages though. FAR too many people lie about how much they take.

 

[needthepump]

I believe these types of posts are troll posts. I dont believe that something happened to you that caused the doctors to order an MRI of your liver. Thats not a routine test. Found something wrong and you decided your best course of action was to take 4 grams of gear a week. If this is true you need to also seek psychiatric help.

Nope. This generation is all about YOLO (You only live once.) There are so many at my gym blasting 2 grams and higher. There don't care about the future...it's all about getting huuuge!!

 

[TheRoid]

Its difficult to compare. Id say orals are worse though on the liver.

Tren does jack up liver enzymes on many. Id say tren is probably worse on the kidneys then most orals. Noo..im not talking about the old nonsense about parabolan im talking about via isolated systolic BP elevation and androgen induced FSGN

How do you feel about a totally non-aromatizing long term AAS use, health-wise (something like Primo+Masteron as the base + Tbol or Var 4 weeks ON/6-8 weeks OFF)?

 

[gotgame]

How do you feel about a totally non-aromatizing long term AAS use, health-wise (something like Primo+Masteron as the base + Tbol or Var 4 weeks ON/6-8 weeks OFF)?

Androgens can also cause hepatic adenomas. Ive mostly seen it in ppl who liked to use tren but while it would make sense it is also quite subjective as they were taking many things.

High androgens have there own issues often on cholesterol levels, blood pressure, renal damage and arteriosclerosis.

Health wise you wouldnt be using orals or only using them at a low dose for a short period of time.

There are fairly " safe" compounds to use like test, real primo, nandrolones ( at low to moderate doses) if you wanted to use an oral think about your reasons and plan accordingly to reduce its effects on HDL and liver toxicitiy. var at 20mg daily for a few weeks can drop HDL in some by a few points but in my experience not as much as others.

Guys are just cranking up the doses without regards. I dont like to give out direct cycling advice but some guys i know have also been very healthy and there cycles are 300-400mg test a week along with 200-300 mg of either primo or nandrolone. Sometimes they will throw in 20mg of var for the summer looks. They run 25m of aromasin daily ( one guy runs 12.5mg and that works well for him) and they all have blood work at those doses so they know E2. Other guys i know use even less then that at around 500mg total gear usage a week.

Im not opposed to GH usage but of course there are cancer risks with that. And i made a whole other post on visceral fat accumulation. But that latter is often due to abuse and multifactorial. Have another friend ( this guys a doctor, not me lol) and he uses 300mg test a week and 3ius of GH. Dude is more jacked then i am and looks and feels great and he is almost 50! He uses 300mg when he is really trying to kill it and drops it down to 200mg weekly routinely.

I mean just by taking like 300mg weekly of test you are already at a higher test level then any man in history pre about 1960...so are you really telling me you cant make some progress with that!

 

[TheRoid]

Gotgame, I don't remember you ever mentioning Boldenone nor Masteron. Not a fan, I guess.

 

[kingpeon]

Just go ahead and kill yourself now and accept The Darwin Award as a parting gift. :banghead:

 

[0893]

Just go ahead and kill yourself now and accept The Darwin Award as a parting gift. :banghead:

This is a terrible post.

 

[kingpeon]

He had been killing himself for months. The post was redundant if not terrible.

With all the warning threads here about abuse and it's consequence there should be a prerequisite to posting sympathy threads due suicidal tendencies.

 

[little slice]

I bet the ones who are (for some reason) continually berating OP after gotgame dished him the real deal + ACTUAL HELPFUL INFORMATION are the first to look for sympathy when shit goes bad for them.


you are all fucking pathetic.


we are so fortunate to have people like stewie and gotgame (and a few others) here who are willing to give amazing advice and insight free of charge..


the rest of you can just eat a bunch of dicks because your comments aren't worth shit, and they certainly aren't helpful.

 

[G.I.Bro]

I bet the ones who are (for some reason) continually berating OP after gotgame dished him the real deal + ACTUAL HELPFUL INFORMATION are the first to look for sympathy when shit goes bad for them.


you are all fucking pathetic.


we are so fortunate to have people like stewie and gotgame (and a few others) here who are willing to give amazing advice and insight free of charge..


the rest of you can just eat a bunch of dicks because your comments aren't worth shit, and they certainly aren't helpful.

Agree with all of this. Gotgame provided a stern but necessary response and is qualified to do so. We all use, and most of us have abused at times. None of us can really throw stones. We're all rolling the dice to some degree. I'm not excusing reckless behavior. But the last thing I feel when I read a post like this with horrible news is that I need to chastise OP. I only feel empathy. If anything, he's opening himself up to vulnerability and possibly providing a service by waking up younger guys who may need a dose of reality. The point is we all learn from it.

If I come on here in 15 years and report an enlarged heart and sub-par ejection fraction, I hope there are still some guys around who still lend support rather than a critical word. If you can't get a hand here from other users, you can't get one anywhere. Part of this addiction I have, and we all have, is we're chasing a physique or ideal, at our own detriment, when we have the intellect and tools to know better...