low and high estrogen

[mohannad]

hey guys,

I know that having too high or too low estrogen can hurt you real bad. I also know that in both cases, symptoms can be very similar and the best way to figure out if you have low or high estrogen is to do a blood test. I have couple of questions,

1. Can you share your own experience of having low/high estrogen while on cycle?

2. From my understanding, if you are on test, some of that test will convert into estrogen = end up having high estrogen, hence the use of AI on cycle. But, how can you get low estrogen while on test or cycle?

 

[Whiteboy84]

You can get low estrogen on cycle by taking too much AI, especially if it's something like letrozole which is probably the strongest AI. No aromatase = no conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

 

[Swifto]

hey guys,

I know that having too high or too low estrogen can hurt you real bad. I also know that in both cases, symptoms can be very similar and the best way to figure out if you have low or high estrogen is to do a blood test. I have couple of questions,

1. Can you share your own experience of having low/high estrogen while on cycle?

2. From my understanding, if you are on test, some of that test will convert into estrogen = end up having high estrogen, hence the use of AI on cycle. But, how can you get low estrogen while on test or cycle?

You generally wont have low estrogen on high testosterone, or on cycle. Not unless you suppress it with overuse of an AI or Letro.

 

[Whiteboy84]

High estrogen = itchy nipples with lumps if it goes on too long(gyno), grow a vagina, etc.

Low estrogen = Painful joints, low sex drive, pretty sure there are a ton of other sides as well.

 

[Jizzmo]

High estrogen = itchy nipples with lumps if it goes on too long(gyno), grow a vagina, etc.

Low estrogen = Painful joints, low sex drive, pretty sure there are a ton of other sides as well.

lol

 

[JUICEDUP3]

im experiencing low right now... letro killed my sex drive, and is just now starting to come back.. not been sexually active for month and half, and took letro w some tren 2 mo ago..

just started back on some trt dose... not busted a nut in ovr month and half..

 

[swedemiester77]

I have mixed. Feel totally emotional, which I never am, and then zero libido, like where even watching porn would do nothing, like I have been castrated...

Only 4 more weeks of prep...

 

[rharman]

PROPER estrogen levels while on a cycle have always been an unanswered question for me (although I no longer do anything other than HRT). I long ago asked what proper levels are and got no answer. If you are elavating T levels dramatically, should estrogen be allowed to elevate slightly as well? Love to see blood test results of people who felt they were well balanced and making great progress, and where their T and E levels were.

 

[magRT496]

im experiencing low right now... letro killed my sex drive, and is just now starting to come back.. not been sexually active for month and half, and took letro w some tren 2 mo ago..

just started back on some trt dose... not busted a nut in ovr month and half..

Letro really screwed me up too. I took some to get rid of gyno and not only did it kill my sex drive but i got some ED from it too. It took a while to recover from it all. To hell with letro.

 

[Jizzmo]

Letro really screwed me up too. I took some to get rid of gyno and not only did it kill my sex drive but i got some ED from it too. It took a while to recover from it all. To hell with letro.

its not the fault of letrozole, that wouldve happened with any AI in excess dosage.
letro is actually a great on cycle AI.

the most believable theory is that letro just happens to reduce the type of aromatase in the brain stronger than the other AIs and thats what kills libido...

 

[mohannad]

thx a lot guys for shining in. If i recall, letro suppresses up to 97%, and only needed if you are have developed gyno, but still dosing letro is very tricky. Also, usually ppl use it at the last week precontest.

 

[Jizzmo]

thx a lot guys for shining in. If i recall, letro suppresses up to 97%, and only needed if you are have developed gyno, but still dosing letro is very tricky. Also, usually ppl use it at the last week precontest.

in women

in men not even letro can lower estrogen by more than maybe 70-80%.

but i usually get bashed for saying that, even though its the truth

 

[mohannad]

in women

in men not even letro can lower estrogen by more than maybe 70-80%.

but i usually get bashed for saying that, even though its the truth

if i recall correctly, MP said that in his thread. check out post #722

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/1980048-post722.html

 

[Jizzmo]

if i recall correctly, MP said that in his thread. check out post #722

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/1980048-post722.html

99% of people say that because some "steroid guideline" once said letro lowers estrogen by 98%

yeah letro lowers estrogen by 98%, but in FEMALES.
in males estrogen is produced/works way differently. there is not a single study that shows 98% estrogen suppression in men with letro...

 

[mohannad]

99% of people say that because some "steroid guideline" once said letro lowers estrogen by 98%

yeah letro lowers estrogen by 98%, but in FEMALES.
in males estrogen is produced/works way differently. there is not a single study that shows 98% estrogen suppression in men with letro...

Here are two studies yo might find interesting,

in females, you are right,

The discovery and mechanism of action of letrozole

but in males, it can go up to 90% within 24 hr (using 0.02 mg dose, very small dose compared to the ones bb usually use). Maybe with higher dosages/more time, it can suppress more. Maybe i need to do some research. I'm not familiar with medical stuff, so if this study is not related, plz forgive my ignorance.

**broken link removed**

 

[Jizzmo]

Here are two studies yo might find interesting,

in females, you are right,

The discovery and mechanism of action of letrozole

but in males, it can go up to 90% within 24 hr (using 0.02 mg dose, very small dose compared to the ones bb usually use). Maybe with higher dosages/more time, it can suppress more. Maybe i need to do some research. I'm not familiar with medical stuff, so if this study is not related, plz forgive my ignorance.

**broken link removed**

it was 30mg, the HIGHEST dose they tested - which is probably a HUMONGOUS dose if 0.02mg already reduce estrogen by 60%...

"After 24 h, a suppression of estrone levels by 60-85% from baseline was achieved with all tested doses. A reduction in estradiol levels by about 30% from baseline was observed at the lowest dose (0.02 mg). This reduction was further enhanced dose dependently to a maximum of about 90% from baseline at 24 h after administration of the highest dose (30 mg)"

plus this is an AI that is not in use and not available.
god knows what they produce in their labs these days.

letrozole cant do that.

 

[mohannad]

thanks a lot man.

 

[Stewie]

Hey Jizzmo, the drug mentioned in that abstract: CGS 20 267, is letrozole. That was it's predetermined pharmacology name, then later named letrozole.

They used 0.02mg that yielded a 30% reduction of E2. We have to remember, this is being administered to eugonadal males. Not folks on some sort of testosterone, either be physiological or supraphysiological. When testosterone is in continual amounts, estradiol and estrone will also be. Unless there's an asromatase enzyme deficiency (very unlikely, and extremely rare). Complete suppression of E2 while on T is nearly impossible. Lower levels of E2 is very possible.

I've learned to stay away from clinical studies indicating a percentage of whatever. Generally it's based on the population average. Example: 30 people might have a 70% increase/decrease, 2-3 might have a 50% +/- , 10 at 85% +/- of said drug. In essence, it's based on an average.

We also have to keep in mind of the induced/inhibited drug-drug interactions of the enzyme CYP3A4. Such as that of Aromasin's drug-drug interaction with Acetaminophen and St. Johns Wort.

it was 30mg, the HIGHEST dose they tested - which is probably a HUMONGOUS dose if 0.02mg already reduce estrogen by 60%...

"After 24 h, a suppression of estrone levels by 60-85% from baseline was achieved with all tested doses. A reduction in estradiol levels by about 30% from baseline was observed at the lowest dose (0.02 mg). This reduction was further enhanced dose dependently to a maximum of about 90% from baseline at 24 h after administration of the highest dose (30 mg)"

plus this is an AI that is not in use and not available.
god knows what they produce in their labs these days.

letrozole cant do that.

 

[Jizzmo]

thanks stewie

it kind of crossed my mind that this compound COULD be letrozole but i couldnt find anymore information on it

interesting to see that even 30mg of letro only inhibit estrogen by about 90%...

that reinforces the assumption that its impossible to crash estrogen while on supraphysiological dosages of testosterone

 

[Stewie]

I seen that! I could not imagine even the most radical AAS users taking a ¼ (7.5mg) of the amount of letrozole in a week. Let alone in one setting

The psychology fall-out on that, I'd be a mental wreck.

thanks stewie

it kind of crossed my mind that this compound COULD be letrozole but i couldnt find anymore information on it

interesting to see that even 30mg of letro only inhibit estrogen by about 90%...

that reinforces the assumption that its impossible to crash estrogen while on supraphysiological dosages of testosterone