Estrogen and Contest Prep

[Ruhlfreak55]

So I saw one kind of related thread, but almost no one answered the guy.

Question is, do you need to keep estrogen low /moderate in order to get fat and water to come off right through more than just the last few weeks of contest prep? I really don't run antiestrogens much as I get basically no high estrogen sides, but I've done bloodwork before on my cruise dose and it has come back high. Now I'm 8 weeks out (hopefully) and it just seems like nothing is coming off my lower back fat wise and I'm wondering if there's a correlations. I have plenty of anastrozole but obviously don't want to crush estrogen too badly this far out.

cycle at the moment is 100mg T prop / 50 mg mast / ~30 mg tren / 50 mg anavar per day.

Also my weight seems pretty stagnant with only ~2500 cals on workout days and ~2100 on off days. I def have the Dr. Mike problem of the body just adding water until it envelopes the earth during prep, but I'd think in as big of a deficit as I am I'd be losing some still at this point.

 

[luki7788]

I speak from experience as a former competitor and current coach of competitors - in 95% of cases, if you want to completely get rid of fat from your buttocks, hamstrings and lower back, you will have to get your estrogen level down very low in the last 3-4 weeks before the performance.

 

[Gunsmith]

I find that in prep keeping it in the lower end of normal , say 30 works well for letting the diet and training take fat off , then like Luki the last month add in some Adex or letro to drop it way down to get the last bit of lower back/glute fat off.
i find keeping it to low for to long just significantly adds to feeling like shit.
id up the mast does to at least what the test dose is then add in 1/2mg adex 2x a week , after 3 weeks see the level is and adjust accordingly

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I speak from experience as a former competitor and current coach of competitors - in 95% of cases, if you want to completely get rid of fat from your buttocks, hamstrings and lower back, you will have to get your estrogen level down very low in the last 3-4 weeks before the performance.

So moderating it at this point wouldn't be a terrible idea.

is .5 mg of anastrozole eod something that in your experience will do that without crashing it? As I said I have a lot of trouble trying to glean where those levels are at since I get no negative sides from high levels.
And I don't often run bloodwork while on bc I don't want a record messing up my script etc. I guess I could if need be just run the estrogen (estradiol) number.

What I'm taking from that also is that at 4 weeks just crush it, correct?

 

[bbxtreme]

So moderating it at this point wouldn't be a terrible idea.

is .5 mg of anastrozole eod something that in your experience will do that without crashing it? As I said I have a lot of trouble trying to glean where those levels are at since I get no negative sides from high levels.
And I don't often run bloodwork while on bc I don't want a record messing up my script etc. I guess I could if need be just run the estrogen (estradiol) number.

What I'm taking from that also is that at 4 weeks just crush it, correct?

Run blood work through Ulta Labs. It will stay separate. Don’t guess on things.

Low estrogen during prep- moderate to higher during offseason. Keep is simple.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I find that in prep keeping it in the lower end of normal , say 30 works well for letting the diet and training take fat off , then like Luki the last month add in some Adex or letro to drop it way down to get the last bit of lower back/glute fat off.
i find keeping it to low for to long just significantly adds to feeling like shit.
id up the mast does to at least what the test dose is then add in 1/2mg adex 2x a week , after 3 weeks see the level is and adjust accordingly

I was going to add mast gradually. Last time I ended up somewhere in the 100-150mg a day range close to the show.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I'll do half a tab (.5 mg) eod here for a week and test it I guess.

 

[Testosteroni]

Run blood work through Ulta Labs. It will stay separate. Don’t guess on things.

Low estrogen during prep- moderate to higher during offseason. Keep is simple.

I always thought low estrogen would slow down fat loss through decreased insulin sensitivity, low leptin, decreased anabolism and joint pain which would interfere with training

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I speak from experience as a former competitor and current coach of competitors - in 95% of cases, if you want to completely get rid of fat from your buttocks, hamstrings and lower back, you will have to get your estrogen level down very low in the last 3-4 weeks before the performance.

luki has it right. MOST competitors i know have to really push the AIs in order to get fat off the stubborn areas toward the end of prep

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I always thought low estrogen would slow down fat loss through decreased insulin sensitivity, low leptin, decreased anabolism and joint pain which would interfere with training

joint pain? we got tren lol

 

[bbxtreme]

I always thought low estrogen would slow down fat loss through decreased insulin sensitivity, low leptin, decreased anabolism and joint pain which would interfere with training

There’s a HUGE difference in “crashing” estrogen and keeping it low.

And keep in mind you’re in a caloric deficit so is different scenario. The body will respond differently.

Same as to why you’ll want to pull it back up while in a progressive phase.

 

[luki7788]

So moderating it at this point wouldn't be a terrible idea.

is .5 mg of anastrozole eod something that in your experience will do that without crashing it? As I said I have a lot of trouble trying to glean where those levels are at since I get no negative sides from high levels.
And I don't often run bloodwork while on bc I don't want a record messing up my script etc. I guess I could if need be just run the estrogen (estradiol) number.

What I'm taking from that also is that at 4 weeks just crush it, correct?

I have no idea because IA works differently on each person, even on the same person they will work differently each time because the level of body fat and other variables that may affect aromatization change all the time.

 

[luki7788]

I always thought low estrogen would slow down fat loss through decreased insulin sensitivity, low leptin, decreased anabolism and joint pain which would interfere with training

exactly - it's strange but people don't understand the difference

low estrogen = closer to the lower end of the normal range

 

[d4ve]

I’ve always had to tank it to get the last bits of fat off, especially from hams, glutes, and lower back. But that’s just the last few weeks.

On the flip side, tank it too early and you’re going to have a rough prep. I actually remember a video with Meadows and Serrano in which Serrano explained why keeping estrogen too low for too long would actually inhibit fat loss. I think that was in the context of going from, say, offseason to 6-8 weeks out- but still important to know.

I’ve always had success running offseason gear with no AI up to about 8 weeks, which is when tren, mast, AI, maybe orals come into play. Might add mast a little earlier than that but test stays high.

 

[Testosteroni]

I’ve always had to tank it to get the last bits of fat off, especially from hams, glutes, and lower back. But that’s just the last few weeks.

On the flip side, tank it too early and you’re going to have a rough prep. I actually remember a video with Meadows and Serrano in which Serrano explained why keeping estrogen too low for too long would actually inhibit fat loss. I think that was in the context of going from, say, offseason to 6-8 weeks out- but still important to know.

I’ve always had success running offseason gear with no AI up to about 8 weeks, which is when tren, mast, AI, maybe orals come into play. Might add mast a little earlier than that but test stays high.

Yeah that’s where my thought process was going. I recall some bodybuilders explaining the negative effects of low estrogen on fat loss. There’s studies showing estrogen’s importance in fat loss and glucose metabolism

 

[Doitagain]

I find that in prep keeping it in the lower end of normal , say 30 works well for letting the diet and training take fat off , then like Luki the last month add in some Adex or letro to drop it way down to get the last bit of lower back/glute fat off.
i find keeping it to low for to long just significantly adds to feeling like shit.

Best overall strategy IME. Bring it extremely low only toward the end to be dry as a bone on stage.

 

[phoenix2]

Keeping estrogen too low (or "crashed") will not impair fat loss directly, but will impair glycogen storage, IGF-1 secretion and so on. You'll look so flat and dehydrated that it'll seem you are watery and smooth. I speak from personal experience (many battles with letrozole for pubertal gyno). Not to mention the libido loss, joint pain and feeling like shit.
On the other hand Dht derivative like masteron are fantastic for fat loss purpose.
Keep it low-normal for contest prep and let dhts, tren or whatever do their magic.

 

[BigDogDave]

Run blood work through Ulta Labs. It will stay separate. Don’t guess on things.

Low estrogen during prep- moderate to higher during offseason. Keep is simple.

Simple is good

 

[Gunsmith]

I think the biggest thing guys worry with about getting dry is they simply are not lean enough and they think "drying out" will make the difference then then end up dehydrated or depleted to and look even worse.
This is a good friend of mine i prepped last year , this is 2 weeks out using nothing but mast for estrogen control to this point and his E2 here was 23 and all we did was add 50mg Winstrol per day and ended up a little leaner and bone dry , you don't need to crash your estrogen to have striated glutes

 

[d4ve]

I think the biggest thing guys worry with about getting dry is they simply are not lean enough and they think "drying out" will make the difference then then end up dehydrated or depleted to and look even worse.
This is a good friend of mine i prepped last year , this is 2 weeks out using nothing but mast for estrogen control to this point and his E2 here was 23 and all we did was add 50mg Winstrol per day and ended up a little leaner and bone dry , you don't need to crash your estrogen to have striated glutes

What were the doses of Test and Mast at this point?

I'd like to use Mast and / or Primo in lieu of an AI, but I'm already using decent doses of both near the end of a prep and feel like I'd need a boatload to get dry.

Did your friend still have the usual death-like lethargy using Mast to lower e2 enough to be stage-dry?