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- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,285
Lately there have been a lot of threads popping up on here about guys with health scares and who takes what, how long, etc.
As everyone knows I am big on pushing health, supplements and medications where needed.
BUT, I wanted to set the record straight as I think many may have interpreted that as me saying you should “cruise” or “come off” or run “low dosages”.
When I give suggestions it’s in the context of knowing that I am a competitor going for a pro card, who has a medical degree, and that I’m on a board of some of the most elite physiques.
There are NO two ways about it. If you want to achieve a pro card or look like a badass bodybuilder who competes- you are going to be pushing a lot of gear. Period. Unless you are the genetic responser or elite then you aren’t running low cycles of 1g of gear per week. Anyone who says they are is full of shit and in denial.
Furthermore, anything over 1mg of Testosterone per pound of bodyweight weekly IS considered a cycle. Sorry if that blows people’s mind, but that’s TRT. NOT 200mg test, 200 primo and “micro dosing” tren.
So why am I starting this thread?
One I get so many DM’s and questions on here about this subject and two I’m sick of seeing the vets and huge guys on here post less when they post the truth and all these morons jump in who are 12 and tell them it’s made up or that they are going to die. Lol. Go eat your Cheerios kids.
When I turned 30 I promised my wife, myself and future children that I would do this responsibly. And as someone with a medical degree I became hell bent on proving that it could be done. Guess what… it’s not as hard as I thought it would be.
What is responsive usage?
Responsible usage means smart cycles. It means not taking more than you need and increasing dosages only when you hit a ceiling and have maximized food, training and recovery first.
It means not running tren year round, taking orals longer than 5 weeks and ideally only using in prep or a final stage of a cut.
It means maximizing T4 and not jumping straight to T3 or DNP to overcompensate.
But what it really boils down to is not abusing drugs to abuse gear. Not abusing gear to eat like shit or because you aren’t disciplined enough. It means doing cardio and steps daily instead of abusing BP meds and beta blockers. I could go on, but you get the idea.
The goal should be to stay healthy with clean blood work and cardio testing year round. Just because you don’t do regular blood work, monitor vitals or do annual cardio testing does NOT mean that some health issue doesn’t exist. That is irresponsible and denial.
Eat as much food as possible, maximize as much gear as you can tolerate without sides and you will grow. Period. As you push the upper limits or to be proactive take supplements and when warranted add in Nebilivol and Telimisartan to “protect” the heart. Don’t do it because you’re too lazy to do cardio or eat clean year round. If you play with fire you will get burned.
The truth is- guys aren’t coming off cycle these days until they’re retiring or have a health scare (they likely won’t if they’re doing things responsibly). There is tremendous risk in constantly causing large bodyweight fluctuations as well.
And before anyone says Ronnie or Jay came off back in the day. LOL yeah maybe they came off the dosages from 5g to 3g. Maybe they came off clen and high amounts of T3/T4. But nobody came “off” truly. If you need proof of that look at all those guys in their “offseason” then look at them after they “retired”… enough said. Branch Warren said it best when asked if he’d compete again- “I’m done with “those” drugs.”!
At the end of the day guys need to stop abusing things to abuse things. But IMO there is smart way and a dumb way to do things.
I’ll let this thread go where guys want it to go. Just leave your moral judgment out of it. This is a hardcore bodybuilding forum. For anyone who thinks gear isn’t a part of that… well that’s just comical.
I think it would be great for the bigger guys on here to chime in with:
1. What’s your usage like year round?
2. How do you maintain your health doing what you are?
3. What’s an area you could improve on to take it to the next level and why don’t you?
To be fair, I’ll start:
1. Lowest I go now is about 1600mg of gear weekly. Highest I’ve gone was just under 4g which was my ceiling. Usually push up around 3g pre-contest and am currently just over 2g in a progressive phase.
2. I base my gear amount on my health, vitals, bloodwork and testing. I take staple supplements year round and I use Telimisartan 40mg and Nebilvol 2.5mg daily for cardio protective benefits. I have perfect vitals without them, but want no risk of LVH or issues. Jardiance is used when high amounts of HGH and insulin are being untitled. Protects the heart, kidneys and balances BG. I also do 10k steps daily, cardio 5 times a week PWO. Only trace saturated fats. You get the idea.
3. The older I get the more I hate to eat. I also hold back if I’m being honest on gear as I have a strong genetic pre disposition to heart issues on my father’s side. Heart attacks and bypass for him, dead uncles and all at young ages. Even with the best sports cardiologist and all the measures I take it still stays in my head that if I run higher dosages or push on tren that I’m risking that. I do this because I love it so it’s not worth it to me.
Enjoy and hope this continues just like my insulin thread to further make this sport a bit more transparent and safer.
As everyone knows I am big on pushing health, supplements and medications where needed.
BUT, I wanted to set the record straight as I think many may have interpreted that as me saying you should “cruise” or “come off” or run “low dosages”.
When I give suggestions it’s in the context of knowing that I am a competitor going for a pro card, who has a medical degree, and that I’m on a board of some of the most elite physiques.
There are NO two ways about it. If you want to achieve a pro card or look like a badass bodybuilder who competes- you are going to be pushing a lot of gear. Period. Unless you are the genetic responser or elite then you aren’t running low cycles of 1g of gear per week. Anyone who says they are is full of shit and in denial.
Furthermore, anything over 1mg of Testosterone per pound of bodyweight weekly IS considered a cycle. Sorry if that blows people’s mind, but that’s TRT. NOT 200mg test, 200 primo and “micro dosing” tren.
So why am I starting this thread?
One I get so many DM’s and questions on here about this subject and two I’m sick of seeing the vets and huge guys on here post less when they post the truth and all these morons jump in who are 12 and tell them it’s made up or that they are going to die. Lol. Go eat your Cheerios kids.
When I turned 30 I promised my wife, myself and future children that I would do this responsibly. And as someone with a medical degree I became hell bent on proving that it could be done. Guess what… it’s not as hard as I thought it would be.
What is responsive usage?
Responsible usage means smart cycles. It means not taking more than you need and increasing dosages only when you hit a ceiling and have maximized food, training and recovery first.
It means not running tren year round, taking orals longer than 5 weeks and ideally only using in prep or a final stage of a cut.
It means maximizing T4 and not jumping straight to T3 or DNP to overcompensate.
But what it really boils down to is not abusing drugs to abuse gear. Not abusing gear to eat like shit or because you aren’t disciplined enough. It means doing cardio and steps daily instead of abusing BP meds and beta blockers. I could go on, but you get the idea.
The goal should be to stay healthy with clean blood work and cardio testing year round. Just because you don’t do regular blood work, monitor vitals or do annual cardio testing does NOT mean that some health issue doesn’t exist. That is irresponsible and denial.
Eat as much food as possible, maximize as much gear as you can tolerate without sides and you will grow. Period. As you push the upper limits or to be proactive take supplements and when warranted add in Nebilivol and Telimisartan to “protect” the heart. Don’t do it because you’re too lazy to do cardio or eat clean year round. If you play with fire you will get burned.
The truth is- guys aren’t coming off cycle these days until they’re retiring or have a health scare (they likely won’t if they’re doing things responsibly). There is tremendous risk in constantly causing large bodyweight fluctuations as well.
And before anyone says Ronnie or Jay came off back in the day. LOL yeah maybe they came off the dosages from 5g to 3g. Maybe they came off clen and high amounts of T3/T4. But nobody came “off” truly. If you need proof of that look at all those guys in their “offseason” then look at them after they “retired”… enough said. Branch Warren said it best when asked if he’d compete again- “I’m done with “those” drugs.”!
At the end of the day guys need to stop abusing things to abuse things. But IMO there is smart way and a dumb way to do things.
I’ll let this thread go where guys want it to go. Just leave your moral judgment out of it. This is a hardcore bodybuilding forum. For anyone who thinks gear isn’t a part of that… well that’s just comical.
I think it would be great for the bigger guys on here to chime in with:
1. What’s your usage like year round?
2. How do you maintain your health doing what you are?
3. What’s an area you could improve on to take it to the next level and why don’t you?
To be fair, I’ll start:
1. Lowest I go now is about 1600mg of gear weekly. Highest I’ve gone was just under 4g which was my ceiling. Usually push up around 3g pre-contest and am currently just over 2g in a progressive phase.
2. I base my gear amount on my health, vitals, bloodwork and testing. I take staple supplements year round and I use Telimisartan 40mg and Nebilvol 2.5mg daily for cardio protective benefits. I have perfect vitals without them, but want no risk of LVH or issues. Jardiance is used when high amounts of HGH and insulin are being untitled. Protects the heart, kidneys and balances BG. I also do 10k steps daily, cardio 5 times a week PWO. Only trace saturated fats. You get the idea.
3. The older I get the more I hate to eat. I also hold back if I’m being honest on gear as I have a strong genetic pre disposition to heart issues on my father’s side. Heart attacks and bypass for him, dead uncles and all at young ages. Even with the best sports cardiologist and all the measures I take it still stays in my head that if I run higher dosages or push on tren that I’m risking that. I do this because I love it so it’s not worth it to me.
Enjoy and hope this continues just like my insulin thread to further make this sport a bit more transparent and safer.
)
falls under responsible usage. You can likely get away with one or maybe moderately gear and having a few beers here and there. But if you want to actively drink, smoke and do high gear dosages… you’re asking for trouble IMO.
