Max protein in a meal…

[qbkilla]

I don't want to offer any answer as I'm not aware of any study that used the specifics you mentioned (it may or may not have been performed, I just don't know) nor I know anyone who can compare a regular meals schedule vs IF using the same calories and macros. It'd be mere speculation on my part.

Makes sense. I feel like I've seen some posts about IF affects on body composition by Layne Norton or Mike Israetel but it was on untrained people who were not consuming large amounts of protein and obviously not using AAS.

 

[KillerStack]

There is apparently a "anabolic resistance" that is related to age. Older individuals may need 40g of protein compared to 20g for young people to get the same MPS response. I don't know when it kicks in but might be relevant to some 40+ individuals. I think protein intake goes down with age where it might better be going up if wanting to build/preserve muscle? But then from a longevity aspect some would argue that response should go down, igf-1 should go down.

I'm sure there is a resistance towards AAS too that is linked to age. That's why we think steroids were better then. No, we were young = better response. If it's anything like protein resistance then older individuals might "need" double the dosage lol. Just speculating.

 

[totalrecomp]

Not gonna lie, was trying to imagine the scene

You have to use the branded "Cocksein" for the best rock hard gainz!

 

[Swifto]

There is apparently a "anabolic resistance" that is related to age. Older individuals may need 40g of protein compared to 20g for young people to get the same MPS response. I don't know when it kicks in but might be relevant to some 40+ individuals. I think protein intake goes down with age where it might better be going up if wanting to build/preserve muscle? But then from a longevity aspect some would argue that response should go down, igf-1 should go down.

I'm sure there is a resistance towards AAS too that is linked to age. That's why we think steroids were better then. No, we were young = better response. If it's anything like protein resistance then older individuals might "need" double the dosage lol. Just speculating.

Mike O'Hearn must be blasting gramsssss!

 

[qbkilla]

LOL Jesus Qb,
I love how when there’s any interesting thread with intelligent discussion, I can always count on you immediately focus a question solely on you rather than trying to figure things out for yourself thru trial & error.

I’ve never seen someone so caught up in the details that they forever fail to see the big picture.

My honest opinion, our goals and how we want our bodies to look aren't even remotely close, so we will never be able to relate to each other. At the end of the day imo everyone is looking to gain as much information as possible and apply it to what they want to achieve... powerlifter, be the biggest guy in the gym, or be lean/healthy year round. I do agree that the big picture..train hard, total calories, get sleep need to be in place before worrying about the small things...meal timing, feeding windows training frequency, supplements etc.... sometimes these things are interesting to discuss. At the end of the day I do enjoy yours and Daniels posts and appreciate the training advice you have given me in various threads that I have applied.

 

[danieltx]

My honest opinion, our goals and how we want our bodies to look aren't even remotely close, so we will never be able to relate to each other. At the end of the day imo everyone is looking to gain as much information as possible and apply it to what they want to achieve... powerlifter, be the biggest guy in the gym, or be lean/healthy year round. I do agree that the big picture..train hard, total calories, get sleep need to be in place before worrying about the small things...meal timing, feeding windows training frequency, supplements etc.... sometimes these things are interesting to discuss. At the end of the day I do enjoy yours and Daniels posts and appreciate the training advice you have given me in various threads that I have applied.

I'm glad you can take the criticism well - some guys here really can't.

Our bigger point is these things really don't matter that much. If they make a difference it's very incremental, like a 3% change in your physique that nobody else notices and you likely struggle to notice. Whether our goals are the same or not doesn't matter - the same basic principles apply.

 

[totalrecomp]

I'm glad you can take the criticism well - some guys here really can't.

Our bigger point is these things really don't matter that much. If they make a difference it's very incremental, like a 3% change in your physique that nobody else notices and you likely struggle to notice. Whether our goals are the same or not doesn't matter - the same basic principles apply.

I can't speak for QB but I just find these topics, interesting. I like learning/discussing these subjects even if they have fuck all application for me personally. I am a fan of bbing, and physique culture combined with a huge interest in biology, chemistry, and science in general. Much like a guy who wants to know EXACTLY what tweaks the F1 team did this year that gave them that 1% increase in performance despite being the guy who drives a 12 year old camary and will get about as close to the starting line as I will the moon.

Sometimes, at least for me, these discussions have NOTHING to do with my micromanaging or looking for the secret and come from a pure standpoint of interest and the never ending pursuit of knowledge of subjects that interest me.


On topic:
I look at the MPS stimulation effects of various amounts of protein(via mainly the leucine content) as a dimmer light switch. A little leucine raises the switch up a little and the max dose 3-6g(there abouts) pushes the dimmer as high as it goes. From that point I look at the additional protein as the electricity that needs to continue to flow to support the light being "on" the the upper limit. So yes, past a certain point, the MPS(the light) will not be getting stimulated(brighter) to any greater degree but you still need the aminos(electricity) flowing to fuel the process that MPS is carrying out and to prevent/mitigate the anti-catabolic(darkness) effects of, well being alive lol.

 

[Cerberus777]

Do we really think 40-50gr is the max used to build muscle for people who are on AAS? Most these studies are done on natural, and a lot done on none athletes.

 

[Gunsmith]

I’m sure it’s different for everybody with everyone’s different metabolisms and all that. What’s the maximum amount of protein that you think the body can handle in one meal?

I ask because sometimes I get to the end of the day and realize I need something like 350+ g of chicken breast (cooked wt) to hit my daily protein macros.

Of course in a perfect world I’d eat more earlier in the day but hell, sometimes life happens and I gotta make up for it with my last meal. I’m wondering if over a certain amount it becomes a waste of food.

For me now that my digestive system is normal I can comfortably eat about 90g-ish at a time every 2-3 hrs when I eat something like shrimp or fish , a little less with chicken and a little less again with beef like maybe 60g , that is when combined with 30-40g carbs.
If I eat more than that every 2.5-3hr. I feel over full and my the next day I'll be adding a bowel movement per day..
Of course if I eat a fatty meat or add significant fats or vegetables I will have to spread the meals out.
If i were trying to get in a ton of protein and not fuck up my digestion id probably probably reduce my solid protein and add in some whey shakes

 

[totalrecomp]

Do we really think 40-50gr is the max used to build muscle for people who are on AAS? Most these studies are done on natural, and a lot done on none athletes.

If you look at a standard whey isolate, I am looking at nutrabios, it has 2599mg of leucine per scoop so two scoops(50g of total protein) gives one 5198mg or 5g of l-leucine which is about the max as far as stimulation MPS goes via leucine. This is where some of those "limits per meal" ideas came from.

I DO think more can be used, especially for larger and assisted folks.

 

[Cerberus777]

If you look at a standard whey isolate, I am looking at nutrabios, it has 2599mg of leucine per scoop so two scoops(50g of total protein) gives one 5198mg or 5g of l-leucine which is about the max as far as stimulation MPS goes via leucine. This is where some of those "limits per meal" ideas came from.

I DO think more can be used, especially for larger and assisted folks.

Just from personal experience when cruising it seems like 50gr is the max, but when on I can eat 75gr and make progress, better than if it's just calories.

 

[qbkilla]

I'm glad you can take the criticism well - some guys here really can't.

Our bigger point is these things really don't matter that much. If they make a difference it's very incremental, like a 3% change in your physique that nobody else notices and you likely struggle to notice. Whether our goals are the same or not doesn't matter - the same basic principles apply.

I definitely agree. Part of it is just interest in the topics like recomp said....but myself and many others now days still spend too much time thinking the little minute details will lead to visible results..."stepping over hundred dollar bills to pick up quarters." You, theotherone, bboy, luki and elvia typically catch me doing it and the criticism does help me. For some reason I notice when other people's priorities are skewed but don't recognize when my own are lol.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

My honest opinion, our goals and how we want our bodies to look aren't even remotely close, so we will never be able to relate to each other. At the end of the day imo everyone is looking to gain as much information as possible and apply it to what they want to achieve... powerlifter, be the biggest guy in the gym, or be lean/healthy year round. I do agree that the big picture..train hard, total calories, get sleep need to be in place before worrying about the small things...meal timing, feeding windows training frequency, supplements etc.... sometimes these things are interesting to discuss. At the end of the day I do enjoy yours and Daniels posts and appreciate the training advice you have given me in various threads that I have applied.

Agree with Daniel that you take criticism well and u seem very self aware. But like he said, in the grand scheme of things, the stuff you ask about makes 0.09% difference in the end. 4 meals vs 6 meals? I promise you that you are not going to accidentally stumble over the game-changing, physique-enhancing tip you think you are looking for.

 

[qbkilla]

Agree with Daniel that you take criticism well and u seem very self aware. But like he said, in the grand scheme of things, the stuff you ask about makes 0.09% difference in the end. 4 meals vs 6 meals? I promise you that you are not going to accidentally stumble over the game-changing, physique-enhancing tip you think you are looking for.

Spot on, and deep down I know it too.... probably a form of OCD that we all have somwhat. I think a few years ago I started a thread "what little things do you worry about that don't matter" and listed some of mine. I do catch myself sometimes... today was delts day I didn't feel like I hit them hard enough so did some more work. In the past I'd be worrying "crap if I add any more sets I may risk overtraining " lol.

 

[buck]

Depends on how much you have built your digestive system to handle.

 

[hawkmoon]

Seems this thread has a few forks in it now.

I think eat as much protein as you can use each sitting. You will know when you hit your limit. Prioritize protein, and if you are still full by next meal time, reduce accordingly.
I think MPS dosing is very interesting, especially when considering specific amino acids, but we are all training which is stimulus, and we are all (?) on anabolics which creates constant stimulus.

 

[Biggerp73]

Again, studies done have indicated 50g increases stimulus maximally, but this was the maximum "within the control" groups. The studies themselves said bigger people (or older people) needed more to achieve maximum MPS than smaller people. Assuming the biggest people in the studies were probably big natty lifters, juiced up guys with even more muscle would need even more than 50g to maximally stimulus synthesis.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean 50g (or whatever maximizes synthesis) is the most you can use to "build muscle." Synthesis is only one half the equation. Amounts above 50g don't further increase synthesis, but they do further decrease breakdown.

FURTHERMORE, if stimulus is already maximized from training and/or aas, then it's not clear that seeking to maximize synthesis through dietary means will have any relevance.

Same goes for the refractory period. You may have negative effects of feeding too frequently among the general population, but if synthesis is maximally stimulated 24/7 due to non-dietary factors like AAS and training, then perhaps non stop 24/7 on the cock aminos may be beneficial.

 

[luki7788]

Spot on, and deep down I know it too.... probably a form of OCD that we all have somwhat. I think a few years ago I started a thread "what little things do you worry about that don't matter" and listed some of mine. I do catch myself sometimes... today was delts day I didn't feel like I hit them hard enough so did some more work. In the past I'd be worrying "crap if I add any more sets I may risk overtraining " lol.

I'm of the same opinion and I don't totally understand your behavior - you worry about the smallest details while you yourself write that all you care about is muscular healthy physics with a low level of fat ... I would also understand those questions about details that give 0.5 % difference if you were a PRO or competed with the best amateurs to get a pro card but in your case such things do not matter at all and all you do for yourself is additional anxiety and stress that will affect your results even more negatively

 

[258onMine]

I’m sure it’s different for everybody with everyone’s different metabolisms and all that. What’s the maximum amount of protein that you think the body can handle in one meal?

I ask because sometimes I get to the end of the day and realize I need something like 350+ g of chicken breast (cooked wt) to hit my daily protein macros.

Of course in a perfect world I’d eat more earlier in the day but hell, sometimes life happens and I gotta make up for it with my last meal. I’m wondering if over a certain amount it becomes a waste of food.

why dont you just wake up and eat another meal, instead of cramming 3 servings of protein into one meal. Problem solved

 

[KillerStack]

why dont you just wake up and eat another meal, instead of cramming 3 servings of protein into one meal. Problem solved

Some would say good, uninterrupted sleep is almost the most important factor for growth and health in general. So don't at least intentionally break it up. Then some would also say night is when your digestive system should get somewhat of a break to really recuperate and restore your body, so don't go to sleep overstuffed with food. On the other hand it sounds beneficial to us to have some protein trickling in through the night, "keeping the mTor growth pathways activated" lol. There was the casein at night study. I don't know how to best strike a balance here.

For trivia, I think back in the day gurus had pros do GH at bedtime and then a second shot after like 3 hours iirc. Everything has been tried lol, but I doubt the middle of the night shot did anything measurable or was worth it to interrupt sleep.