Misc. Data - Recovery / Performance Differentiation (200 vs. 100 TRT + 2IU vs. 0IU HGH)

[Performance Based]

Good afternoon all - hope this finds you well.

I nerd out on data quite a bit so wanted to share some miscellaneous findings on two different sets of data both 4 months long exactly.

Cycles
200mg Testosterone
100mg Nandralone
600mg Equipoise
2IU HGH

100mg Testosterone
100mg Nandralone
600mg Equipoise
0IU HGH


Training - Consistent For Both
Cardio
2-3X Sprint Sessions Per Week
2 LSD Runs Per Week

Durability
4-5X Athletic Based Training + Full Body Bodyweight

Differences

	Cycle 1	Cycle 2
Weight	217	212
Average RHR	48-52	44-49
Average Sleep Per Night	5 Hours 47 minutes	7 hours 32 minutes
Miscellaneous Notations	Performance feels sluggish - for lack of a better term, "pulmonary bloat" seems to raise heart rate. Performance based god like mode here - minus conventional cardio modalities. Aesthetically a more pleasing physique. Less gastro-intestinal issues as well it seemed.	Substantial need for additional sleep. Programming has to be modified not allowing for repeat training of muscle groups. For sprints/LSD events warm up time for lungs to open up is substantially less. Approximately a 15-20% drop in strength however.

No variation in sex drive/frequency for either.

 

[cage99]

You always are very well prepared and must have extensive notebooks filled with data! Bravo!

Cage

 

[Mufasa123]

I'm actually examing hgh and resting heart rate on myself right now. Seems to elevate it, and many have reported the same maybe water, but need more data.

 

[Virtuous]

Was the sleep situation similar during both runs, and you simply enjoyed less sleep with cycle 1? That’s super odd to me if so, given HGH is in the mix.

 

[Performance Based]

Was the sleep situation similar during both runs, and you simply enjoyed less sleep with cycle 1? That’s super odd to me if so, given HGH is in the mix.

Evening mate - Sleep seemed deeper and more restorative on cycle 1. Just logged into my Oura, over that time frame I averaged just over 2 hours of deep sleep. On Cycle two just under 1:15 of deep sleep per night.

Less sleep but higher quality.

I will say I am spending more time however in REM on cycle 2 which is quite interesting. Huge trade off.

Same sleep hygiene/protocol between the two.

 

[qbkilla]

What is the reason for changing 2 variables both the test dosage and gh? Doesn't that make results now difficult to really draw conclusions? Was diet the same?

 

[Performance Based]

What is the reason for changing 2 variables both the test dosage and gh? Doesn't that make results now difficult to really draw conclusions? Was diet the same?

Unfortunately it does

Wanting to do 4 months at 200 without GH and 100 with GH.


I have minimal data from 200 test, 100 nandro and 2IU showing 42-44 RHR

Just a hypothetical situation but assuming the water weight directly correlates to the raised RHR and degradation in cardio output.

 

[qbkilla]

Unfortunately it does

Wanting to do 4 months at 200 without GH and 100 with GH.


I have minimal data from 200 test, 100 nandro and 2IU showing 42-44 RHR

Just a hypothetical situation but assuming the water weight directly correlates to the raised RHR and degradation in cardio output.

Hypothetically, do you feel there would be any difference between 400 tear vs 200 test and 200 npp? I typically run 400 rear but trying halving it and using npp. Not expecting any changes tbh

 

[Performance Based]

From @Type-IIx and his documentation on the exacerbation of estrogen related sides of testosterone from nandralone I would hypothetically guess with the higher mg concentration it would exist? However nominally?

To be honest I loathe pinning. Shorter esters and myself just don't mix.

I tried 600 test a while ago, blew up weight wise and my cardio plummeted (perhaps 3 weeks only if I remember right?). I haven't ran 400 test in all sincerity.

 

[rippedyearround]

Thanks for the data. Very interesting. I suspect most of the difference is the GH and not the test? No way to know for sure i guess.

 

[Sully1234]

What time of day were you taking the GH?

 

[Performance Based]

Thanks for the data. Very interesting. I suspect most of the difference is the GH and not the test? No way to know for sure i guess.

What time of day were you taking the GH?

@rippedyearround Unfortunately with the limited data set you are correct in your assumption. GH hits me hard for some reason.

@Sully1234 Mornings sir - wake up at 6, shot is taken approx 6:15

 

[Sully1234]

@rippedyearround Unfortunately with the limited data set you are correct in your assumption. GH hits me hard for some reason.

@Sully1234 Mornings sir - wake up at 6, shot is taken approx 6:15

I see, I was curious if taken at night that it could have affected sleep like that.

 

[Cerberus777]

It's better for fat burning but I notice GH before cardio effects performance negatively if doing more than LISS. On zone 3 or more days I'll dose it afterwards. I don't think it really matters when you dose it for healing benefits.

 

[qbkilla]

@rippedyearround Unfortunately with the limited data set you are correct in your assumption. GH hits me hard for some reason.

@Sully1234 Mornings sir - wake up at 6, shot is taken approx 6:15

What are your thoughts on other recovery techniques backed by science or bro science?

Stretching, hot bath, sauna, contrast showers, foam rolling, THC/CBD?

 

[fisther69]

From @Type-IIx and his documentation on the exacerbation of estrogen related sides of testosterone from nandralone I would hypothetically guess with the higher mg concentration it would exist? However nominally?

To be honest I loathe pinning. Shorter esters and myself just don't mix.

I tried 600 test a while ago, blew up weight wise and my cardio plummeted (perhaps 3 weeks only if I remember right?). I haven't ran 400 test in all sincerity.

I remember how you said the higher the test dose you use the worse you endurance got..I’ve been running 400-500mg of test a week for about a month now and haven’t noticed a fall off yet…but i definitely feel it coming

 

[cmryan]

From @Type-IIx and his documentation on the exacerbation of estrogen related sides of testosterone from nandralone I would hypothetically guess with the higher mg concentration it would exist? However nominally?

To be honest I loathe pinning. Shorter esters and myself just don't mix.

I tried 600 test a while ago, blew up weight wise and my cardio plummeted (perhaps 3 weeks only if I remember right?). I haven't ran 400 test in all sincerity.

I’m curious, have you ever considered an EQ only cycle? Or maybe EQ plus HCG? I know people shriek at the idea of no testosterone cycles, but I’ve read that EQ only cycles were somewhat common (or at least not rare) 20-ish years ago.

 

[Performance Based]

Good morning gentlemen - Typing quickly, running behind today!


@Cerberus777 Curious - what problems have you had with your cardiovascular output and GH administration? I feel heavy/sluggish and out of breath.

@qbkilla This is the basis for an entire post I swear. Worked with a human performance lab on recovery modalities for a little bit. Going to highlight a few and go into them in brevity:

• Cryotherapy - Data is plain on this; utterly no value for physiological recovery. Does however de-regulate when utilized with some normality. Athletes showed higher HRVs after intense multi day bouts of training than baseline.
• IV Therapy - Fantastic for flushing out toxins. The add ons however provided no additional benefit (meyers cocktail vs. a simple bag of lactated ringers) regarding DOMs
• Foam Rolling - For Warm up sure - not for recovery. No fascial tension which is usually what needs to be addressed post session.
• Massage therapy - With a good therapist yes. Rolfing yes. ART yes. General deep tissue for removal of cellular waste to enhance recovery but it won't help injuries heal any faster. Deep tissue + a liter meyers = my perfect combo on a Saturday before my Sunday off.
• Contrast Showers - in all sincerity commercial and residential showers don't really get cold enough for the benefits. They looked at buying some hideously expensive water tank to do this at my last command. Thankfully it was passed up on. I love huberman's stuff but all the data he interprets is on the general populace. Trained individuals usually have higher thresholds for dopaminetic responses. Tap water may illicit some type of response in our general American populace - for any trained individual that is advanced enough to be using PEDs... Your just wasting water in my opinion.
• THC - I still get drug tested. I've popped a gummy three times in my life. Each time was legit immediately after or the day after testing soooo *shrug*
• Stretching is the second most important modality in regards to injury prevention the data shows after strength training. Then we can go down the road; the stronger the muscle is through non conventional movement patterns the lower the chance of both initial onset of injury or repeat injuries to a muscle that has had a massive injury.
• PRP - Don't waste your time
• Stem (intro-articular injections) - No matter the origination tissue (wharton's jelly, adipose or marrow derived) everyone had terrific responses
• Stem (intravenous administration) - two new studies just came out showing that a majority of the cells actually get snagged by the lungs. I have only done this once before and I was setting new running records legit the next two weeks every day. I had no real physiological improvements however nor changes to pain levels.
• HBOT - One of the most powerful tools on this planet if you can do it with consistency and for one hour sessions. Individuals that did 30 min sessions per day showed no changes to MRI activation scans pre/post nor physiological. One hour and two hour individuals showed the same measurable changes on their MRIs and no real change in their ability to recover from heavy training loads.
• Sauna - all the studies show infrequent use and for extended periods of time for a GH tick... Ehhh, GH even pharma is cheap when the time required for these studies is factored in... Its like taking MK677... Just makes me wonder, why?

@fisther69 First I'll ask finally - I'm gonna need you to elaborate on this username...

Yessir, the jump from 200 to 600 was the same as me adding 100mg of tren essentially. Breathing became heavy and labored, cardiovascular output dropped substantially, and BP remained substantially higher than normal. For LSD runs it wasn't too big of a deal but anything with a performance metric I was essentially a fat kid. I tried 300 and 400 a little bit as well, seems to be a linear regression on dosage and performance when it comes to higher dosages of testosterone for me. Tren was straight up parabolic. 200mg = death. 100mg = slow fat kid. 50mg = stop this now. 21mg = I feel it but no biggie

@cmryan In all sincerity I haven't. On the 100mg I just don't feel as though I am recovering properly. I would be curious though to add in the 2IU of GH and continue to drop my GH and go more towards skill/conditioning training as a priority vs. strength.

 

[Cerberus777]

Good morning gentlemen - Typing quickly, running behind today!


@Cerberus777 Curious - what problems have you had with your cardiovascular output and GH administration? I feel heavy/sluggish and out of breath.

@qbkilla This is the basis for an entire post I swear. Worked with a human performance lab on recovery modalities for a little bit. Going to highlight a few and go into them in brevity:

• Cryotherapy - Data is plain on this; utterly no value for physiological recovery. Does however de-regulate when utilized with some normality. Athletes showed higher HRVs after intense multi day bouts of training than baseline.
• IV Therapy - Fantastic for flushing out toxins. The add ons however provided no additional benefit (meyers cocktail vs. a simple bag of lactated ringers) regarding DOMs
• Foam Rolling - For Warm up sure - not for recovery. No fascial tension which is usually what needs to be addressed post session.
• Massage therapy - With a good therapist yes. Rolfing yes. ART yes. General deep tissue for removal of cellular waste to enhance recovery but it won't help injuries heal any faster. Deep tissue + a liter meyers = my perfect combo on a Saturday before my Sunday off.
• Contrast Showers - in all sincerity commercial and residential showers don't really get cold enough for the benefits. They looked at buying some hideously expensive water tank to do this at my last command. Thankfully it was passed up on. I love huberman's stuff but all the data he interprets is on the general populace. Trained individuals usually have higher thresholds for dopaminetic responses. Tap water may illicit some type of response in our general American populace - for any trained individual that is advanced enough to be using PEDs... Your just wasting water in my opinion.
• THC - I still get drug tested. I've popped a gummy three times in my life. Each time was legit immediately after or the day after testing soooo *shrug*
• Stretching is the second most important modality in regards to injury prevention the data shows after strength training. Then we can go down the road; the stronger the muscle is through non conventional movement patterns the lower the chance of both initial onset of injury or repeat injuries to a muscle that has had a massive injury.
• PRP - Don't waste your time
• Stem (intro-articular injections) - No matter the origination tissue (wharton's jelly, adipose or marrow derived) everyone had terrific responses
• Stem (intravenous administration) - two new studies just came out showing that a majority of the cells actually get snagged by the lungs. I have only done this once before and I was setting new running records legit the next two weeks every day. I had no real physiological improvements however nor changes to pain levels.
• HBOT - One of the most powerful tools on this planet if you can do it with consistency and for one hour sessions. Individuals that did 30 min sessions per day showed no changes to MRI activation scans pre/post nor physiological. One hour and two hour individuals showed the same measurable changes on their MRIs and no real change in their ability to recover from heavy training loads.
• Sauna - all the studies show infrequent use and for extended periods of time for a GH tick... Ehhh, GH even pharma is cheap when the time required for these studies is factored in... Its like taking MK677... Just makes me wonder, why?

@fisther69 First I'll ask finally - I'm gonna need you to elaborate on this username...

Yessir, the jump from 200 to 600 was the same as me adding 100mg of tren essentially. Breathing became heavy and labored, cardiovascular output dropped substantially, and BP remained substantially higher than normal. For LSD runs it wasn't too big of a deal but anything with a performance metric I was essentially a fat kid. I tried 300 and 400 a little bit as well, seems to be a linear regression on dosage and performance when it comes to higher dosages of testosterone for me. Tren was straight up parabolic. 200mg = death. 100mg = slow fat kid. 50mg = stop this now. 21mg = I feel it but no biggie

@cmryan In all sincerity I haven't. On the 100mg I just don't feel as though I am recovering properly. I would be curious though to add in the 2IU of GH and continue to drop my GH and go more towards skill/conditioning training as a priority vs. strength.

Same, anything that triggers water retention causes me to be sluggish and out of breath easier than just the weight increase would cause. Holding 5lbs more water in me breath is labored more than Holding 7lbs of water in a back pack. I don't notice it much with steady state zone 2, but hard climbs on the MTB time and perception suffer more.

 

[bereal23]

So in my pursuit of being a jacked, well rounded athlete, I'd be better off keeping test around 200 and adding some eq? Instead of just running 3-400 mg of test?