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My intra workout drink

Training for 1.5 hours on AAS is not going to be all that catabolic. I know the hbcd/pepto/amino protocol shines when in an optimized slin use window and pounding 100g or more of carbs.

I just don't know if the results are equally as amazing when not using slin. As I said, I never go into the workout fasted and have had a meal. My pre-workout has bcaa in it too. Just hard to imagine 1hr of carbs while training is going to make that much difference.

No need to imagine, actually. The research is out there.

(One of the most relevant studies is Tarpenning, K.M., et al., Influence of weight training exercise and modification of hormonal response on skeletal muscle growth. J Sci Med Sport, 2001. 4(4): p. 431-46.)

**broken link removed**

Laboratory vs. The Long-Haul: Cortisol, You Sneaky Bast*#d!

Training progress takes time. Progress takes repeated brutal efforts with consistent nutrition and adequate recovery over the course of months and years. The temporal window through which researchers peer when using small muscle mass acute exercise tests (often using untrained subjects—which I’ll address in Part 2) may not predict long haul gains (for various, fairly obvious reasons such as uncontrolled dietary changes, level of training effort, general variability among trainees (25), etc.). One dastardly culprit clouding the picture may also be cortisol (the “sneaky bastard”), a catabolic/proteolytic stress hormone (26) antagonistic to the anabolic effects of insulin and growth hormone (27-29) that also gets released during exercise simply for fuel handling (carb, fat, and protein oxidation).

The harder you push yourself, the heavier the load (30). Also, the more work you do in a given amount of time (31-33), the greater the cortisol release. This means that a brutal 90-minute training session while blasting Iron Maiden in your garage gym just might elicit a bit more cortisol release than a 45- to 60-minute workout guided by an anonymous, lab coat-donning graduate student counting your reps in tempo with a metronome. On the other hand, research (and common sense) suggests that keeping cortisol levels under control, both post-exercise—which actually occurs during the course of positive training adaptation (34)—and in general (“resting levels”), may be vitally associated with training progress (35, 36). In other words, living with high stress doesn’t help you grow.

Unfortunately, using acute post-workout cortisol release to gauge how an RS impacts recovery may be complicated by the fact that the macronutrient composition of the RS itself can cause cortisol variation. Consuming an extremely high protein meal or a protein-only meal raises cortisol (37, 38), whereas consuming carbs will reduce blood cortisol levels (38, 39). Not surprisingly, post-resistance exercise RS blends elevate (31) or have no effect (33, 40) on cortisol, while intra-RS also had no effect(41) and reduced cortisol post-workout (42). In the context of this mish-mash of results, it seems that the uncertainty about whether carbohydrates are a worthwhile addition to peri-workout RS (8, 9) rests primarily with a single acute study that lacked cortisol measurements. However, it demonstrated that adding 50 grams of carbohydrates to 25 grams of protein to a post-exercise RS had no effect on muscle protein breakdown or synthesis during the first three hours post-exercise(43).

More revealing to me, however, is a training study showing that repeated consumption of an intra-workout RS that reduces cortisol during and after exercise (42) also translates into less muscle breakdown (44). Most importantly, it translates into greater muscle growth, week by week. In fact, the muscle gains in this study correlated with the attenuation of the cortisol response over the course of training (45). In other words, the less cortisol was elevated, the better the subjects grew. The difficulty in connecting cortisol elevations with an immediate impact on protein metabolism (i.e., when the experimental design only includes short-term measurements) may lie in cortisol’s relatively slow proteolytic effects, which can take hours to manifest (46) and be imperceptible when using the protein tracer methodology typically employed to measure metabolism in acute exercise studies (27, 47, 48).



Still, it is true that other research has shown that resting cortisol levels many hours after your last training session predict muscle fiber growth (49) and strength performance (50) over the course of long periods of training. In one study where a carb-based RS essentially eliminated exercise-induced cortisol release (34, 51), most of the variability in muscle fiber growth among subjects could be explained simply by “cortisol control.”

This is not to say that training should be easy just so that you can keep “the sneaky bastard” at bay. On the contrary, in a recent resistance training experiment (no RS was given), generating greater post-workout cortisol (testosterone and IGF-1 responses were statistically irrelevant) meant better muscle growth (52). This was likely because, as I mentioned above, the harder you train, the greater the cortisol release. On the other hand, the subjects who grew best were obviously also able to recover between training session.
 
You should really try a HBCD product like Glycofuse and pair it with preferably Peptopro..

Mixes, tastes, and goes down a lot better.

What dosages do you like for an intense and heavy 90 mitues workout?
Also do you like to use something like creatine, glutamine, NOS etc. Preworkout with the insulin shot?

Many thanks !
 
Meadows on intra/peri nutrition in the first part of this. Seems the main perceived benefit is increased recovery and DOMS reduction.

John Meadows Full Length Skype Interview: [ame]http://youtu.be/T3DRkMJdtGU[/ame]
 
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What dosages do you like for an intense and heavy 90 mitues workout?
Also do you like to use something like creatine, glutamine, NOS etc. Preworkout with the insulin shot?

Many thanks !

75-100 Glycofuse(some use up to 150)
30 - 40g protein from peptopro (some use as high as 45-60)
Creapure 10g

Sometimes I'll add agmatine at around 1g and citrulline malate at 6-8g.


Who said anything about it being dependant on an insulin shot? If I were to use insulin I'd possibly add glutamine as cheap insurance since it converts to glucose easily. Possibly Glycerol too.
 
75-100 Glycofuse(some use up to 150)
30 - 40g protein from peptopro (some use as high as 45-60)
Creapure 10g

Sometimes I'll add agmatine at around 1g and citrulline malate at 6-8g.


Who said anything about it being dependant on an insulin shot? If I were to use insulin I'd possibly add glutamine as cheap insurance since it converts to glucose easily. Possibly Glycerol too.

You think 40g hbcd and 20g pepto is enough? Seems a lot of guys are using a lot more carbs.
 
You think 40g hbcd and 20g pepto is enough? Seems a lot of guys are using a lot more carbs.

This is about the dose I was thinking.

My diet guy didn't leave room for extra intra carbs but fat loss is coming so quick I figure can slow down an maybe gain a couple lean pounds.

If doms improvement is one of the.big benefits it's not of much interest cause never get more then a little achey.

Will it slow down fat loss a ton to have insulin flowing around during training?
 
You think 40g hbcd and 20g pepto is enough? Seems a lot of guys are using a lot more carbs.

This is about the dose I was thinking.

My diet guy didn't leave room for extra intra carbs but fat loss is coming so quick I figure can slow down an maybe gain a couple lean pounds.

If doms improvement is one of the.big benefits it's not of much interest cause never get more then a little achey.

Will it slow down fat loss a ton to have insulin flowing around during training?

I would not have personally had it mixed that way...but it could be alright. Keep in mind, in Glycofuse and Plazma there are minerals present.....there has to be a reason for that - so mixing TN's stuff is not what I would do.(Their HB CD is void of minerals.) I also like to get my own separate raws and do the mixing myself...whos to say it will be an even mix etc?
Didn't you say your mix was 9 peptopro and 20 HBCD?
Id likely do 27 and 60. Start at 20...but if soreness isn't eliminated you will have to bump it til it does disappear. It is unbelievable how you just don't get sore with this combo.(When the dosing is optimal.)
 
I would not have personally had it mixed that way...but it could be alright. Keep in mind, in Glycofuse and Plazma there are minerals present.....there has to be a reason for that - so mixing TN's stuff is not what I would do.(Their HB CD is void of minerals.) I also like to get my own separate raws and do the mixing myself...whos to say it will be an even mix etc?
Didn't you say your mix was 9 peptopro and 20 HBCD?
Id likely do 27 and 60. Start at 20...but if soreness isn't eliminated you will have to bump it til it does disappear. It is unbelievable how you just don't get sore with this combo.(When the dosing is optimal.)

Yes it breaks down to 9g protein of pepto, 20g hbcd per scoop. TN's natural orange cream flavor. I was going to put it in some orange powerade for some extra carbs and minerals and do 2 scoops for 20g pepto 40-60g+ cho mix. Then add creapure and agmatine along with another good dose of BCAA.
 
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Yes it breaks down to 9g protein of pepto, 20g hbcd per scoop. TN's natural orange cream flavor. I was going to put it in some orange powerade for some extra carbs and minerals and do 2 scoops for 10g pepto 40-60g+ cho mix. Then add creapure and agmatine along with another good dose of BCAA.
10g protein is rather ridiculous imo. Meadows suggests you start at 20 and increase til no longer sore.
 
10g protein is rather ridiculous imo. Meadows suggests you start at 20 and increase til no longer sore.

Sorry, I meant 20. It's 9 per scoop. I planned 2 scoops to start at 20. Factor in the extra BCAA I'm adding and the pro I eat 1 hr before workout and I'm hoping that's sufficient protein. Well see.
 
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Sorry, I meant 20. It's 9 per scoop. I planned to start at 20. Factor in the extra BCAA I'm adding and the pro I eat 1 hr before workout and I'm hoping that's sufficient.
Only one way to find out...
I suspect 27/60 and 36/80 would be better. ;)
 

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