My new mass workout

[animal eater]

Sorry but there is no magic formula for how many days works best. Totally an individual thing. The absolute biggest factor is recovery. I have trained THOUSANDS of people for a long...long time.

Some can slay it 5-6 times a week. Male and female. Some can train a few times a week, some one. A huge component here is also how much inflammation we carry as people. They always vary. Me personally it is 3 to 4 times per week with intensity. Anymore and I don't recover hence don't make gains in size/strength. You might be the same, you might not.

And yes... sleep, hormones, food all make an impact on ability to recover, it is still a big genetic question mark.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Ok

Sorry but there is no magic formula for how many days works best. Totally an individual thing. The absolute biggest factor is recovery. I have trained THOUSANDS of people for a long...long time.

Some can slay it 5-6 times a week. Male and female. Some can train a few times a week, some one. A huge component here is also how much inflammation we carry as people. They always vary. Me personally it is 3 to 4 times per week with intensity. Anymore and I don't recover hence don't make gains in size/strength. You might be the same, you might not.

And yes... sleep, hormones, food all make an impact on ability to recover, it is still a big genetic question mark.

Good.......name ONE person that you trained that we would know. Then lets discuss his or her training.

 

[animal eater]

Good.......name ONE person that you trained that we would know. Then lets discuss his or her training.

As a mater of fact I have trained someone on this board that you have....in the past and that is totally and absolutely beside the point. The great majority of people I have trained are overseas and the MAJORITY in person from athletes to bodybuilders to 70 years olds.... so fuckin what.

The actual topic of the thread was muscle mass and recovery to a certain point. And guess what, both those components relate to everybody here and everyone else for that point.

By the way if you are really keen to find my approaches to training out, they are not overly hard to find.

BUT again, I am not going to turn this post in to a pissing match. Sorry mate, not my style.

 

[flexdurden]

I am unsure where you are competition wise. What show did you do? How many have you done? Lets start there then go to next questions.......

I haven't competed in several years. Won a few natty shows, had a few injuries and health issues and lost a ton of weight.

I'm now 8 weeks out from my first NPC show. I used the DC two way for a year and gained 23 pounds (just on Dr. prescribed TRT). I'm only 5'3" if that and competing in the bantams (yeah you all can have your laughs, but after having pituitary failure you have to start somewhere).

I was planning on eventually moving to the 3 way DC split as I respond well to HIT type training with minimal exercises per bodypart and just a few very intense sets.

So, like I said, LONG way to go and A LOT of learning to do lol.

Thanks again

 

[tri-terror]

Mental, gaining 23lbs is great and props for doing that. But almost anyone can start out by gaining 20lbs if they are half way intelligent and train hard.. Its the NEXT 20lbs and more that is the real mother.
You should start your own threaf and get some ideas from the guys on this board. IM is great for info on DC but aside from the mods, most of those guys are kind of narrow sighted.

 

[tri-terror]

Luk, you need to focus on movements that are going to get you the most bang for your Buck. Train hard get out of the gym, recover, repeat.
If mass is your goal, you got no business going anywhere near a cable crossover.
Focus on the basic compound lifts.
Once you have put on some size you can evaluate weak points and tweak things a bit.

 

[sebaco2011]

I agree with the person who mentioned 5x5 and Wendlers 5/3/1 both AMAZING programs and I've used both , for my mass building workout right now im doing anywhere from 15-20 sets total, this is just me but I LOVE it, right now im unemployed due to a motorcycle accident , so now im just a student. I feel with me working out eod and eating plenty of foods and being 'on' that I can handle this workload pretty easly. If your natural Id highly reccomend u start 5x5 till you still then go to 5/3/1 if your not natty and are 'on' right now I would sort of strive away from 5/3/1 since you should be making more gains then 5 pounds to upper body lifts and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. A 265 x 10 squat I would assume your natty so hop onto one of these training programs and eat / sleep like a baby , and the gains will definitely come.

 

[flexdurden]

Mental, gaining 23lbs is great and props for doing that. But almost anyone can start out by gaining 20lbs if they are half way intelligent and train hard.. Its the NEXT 20lbs and more that is the real mother.
You should start your own threaf and get some ideas from the guys on this board. IM is great for info on DC but aside from the mods, most of those guys are kind of narrow sighted.

Thanks Tri-terror. I'm actually on IM as well. Just new over here.

I know adding that additional weight is going to tougher, but I think getting there is going to rely more on food than anything else.

I really like how diverse and open minded folks are here. Good place good place for sure.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

OK

As a mater of fact I have trained someone on this board that you have....in the past and that is totally and absolutely beside the point. The great majority of people I have trained are overseas and the MAJORITY in person from athletes to bodybuilders to 70 years olds.... so fuckin what.

The actual topic of the thread was muscle mass and recovery to a certain point. And guess what, both those components relate to everybody here and everyone else for that point.

By the way if you are really keen to find my approaches to training out, they are not overly hard to find.

BUT again, I am not going to turn this post in to a pissing match. Sorry mate, not my style.

If you can't answer my question then I see the flaw in your theory. I suggest the next thousand people you train a bit differently.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

I haven't competed in several years. Won a few natty shows, had a few injuries and health issues and lost a ton of weight.

I'm now 8 weeks out from my first NPC show. I used the DC two way for a year and gained 23 pounds (just on Dr. prescribed TRT). I'm only 5'3" if that and competing in the bantams (yeah you all can have your laughs, but after having pituitary failure you have to start somewhere).

I was planning on eventually moving to the 3 way DC split as I respond well to HIT type training with minimal exercises per bodypart and just a few very intense sets.

So, like I said, LONG way to go and A LOT of learning to do lol.

Thanks again

I agree you have a lot of learning to do. Open your mind a bit.......

 

[thatbloke]

Your lifts are weak which is a sign your diet(not eating enough) and sleep is not on point. Start from scratch and do a good strength program like Wendler 531 and Bill Starr 5X5 and learn how to get stronger on the big 4 lifts before you go for a full fledged BB routine.

that, or more likely hes a beginner not using anabolic steroids

 

[animal eater]

wrong again

If you can't answer my question then I see the flaw in your theory. I suggest the next thousand people you train a bit differently.

Both your reasoning and comprehension skills are flawed. Nothing I can say other than read my first post in this thread again about recovery and do so S L O W L Y this time. This might shock you but I don't post on this board to find business so it isn't really necessary to view me or every other trainer here as a financial threat.

I actually don't take on American clients atm because of insurance liability and frankly I don't have the time. I have more than enough work running facilities and providing health and wellbeing consulting for companies.

Sheesh do people amaze me sometimes.:banghead:

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Oh yes

Both your reasoning and comprehension skills are flawed. Nothing I can say other than read my first post in this thread again about recovery and do so S L O W L Y this time. This might shock you but I don't post on this board to find business so it isn't really necessary to view me or every other trainer here as a financial threat.

I actually don't take on American clients atm because of insurance liability and frankly I don't have the time. I have more than enough work running facilities and providing health and wellbeing consulting for companies.

Sheesh do people amaze me sometimes.:banghead:

Yes, I have a hard time understanding bullshit....whether its fast or slow. What if you have a client from another country that is American? Or better yet, PART American? I guess if I trained 1000 people I would not have time either........I am curious what companies you consult "training" for.......Pillsbury?

 

[ironcide]

Your lifts are weak which is a sign your diet(not eating enough) and sleep is not on point. Start from scratch and do a good strength program like Wendler 531 and Bill Starr 5X5 and learn how to get stronger on the big 4 lifts before you go for a full fledged BB routine.

I'd add chad smith's juggarnaut routine in that list, and favor it a little more as it has more work in typical bbing rep ranges. I used it to last winter, got a lot of strength out of it and really brought up my legs. I'd probably do more bbing assistance work (most of it was powerlifting type stuff, but I gave in all a shot and stuck with it) next time around, and mainly just used the progression/reps/%'s on the big 3/4

 

[animal eater]

To the OP, As mentioned earlier, look at your lifts that allow you to get the most bang for the buck and work them hard. My point earlier was to pay attention to recovery and look to improve them along the way.

Sorry for the banter that stunk up your thread. It is evident some people believe that everyone else's views and experience are worthless.

Be consistent while taking note of what works for you. Take the time to recognize your strengths but be even more critical in the time spent working on a weakness. That's bodybuilding and that's life mate. It's how we find balance.

 

[luk45z]

thank you all mates for you feedback

yeah, im not a steroid user. i dont even use creatine.

during 2 years I gained 15kg of weight. from 66kg to 81kg.

I dont think my diet is bad. 250g protein, 350g carbs, 110-120g fats. clean diet. lots of beef, rice, buckwheat, eggs, fish...I spend over 1000 zł just on my diet (it's almost half of average salary here, in Poland).

Ive got a lot of comittment, but I just ten to overthink everything ;/ writing workout routines, a lot of them.........

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I see

To the OP, As mentioned earlier, look at your lifts that allow you to get the most bang for the buck and work them hard. My point earlier was to pay attention to recovery and look to improve them along the way.

Sorry for the banter that stunk up your thread. It is evident some people believe that everyone else's views and experience are worthless.

Be consistent while taking note of what works for you. Take the time to recognize your strengths but be even more critical in the time spent working on a weakness. That's bodybuilding and that's life mate. It's how we find balance.

I see your issue.........you skipped post #2.

 

[halflife]

I see your issue.........you skipped post #2.

I dunno, if I achieved a physique that less than 1% of this board has (and did it in a fraction of the time than most that have equal physique) and even less have in the world - I would be pretty DAMN confident in my methods. Especially if I have hundreds of clients making gains off my strategy compared to other routines/food intakes. But being experienced in this industry and watching people gain muscle off other routines (as phil has seen with DC and TONS of other routines) I would understand other methods can be used to get to the end goal as well. Most no as efficient though (I know this cause from my own experience as mentioned above).

Just how I see it.

 

[Vanilla Mandingo]

It depends......trainers are not just for advanced BBers.......IF I had to start over, I would want to start right........but starting right is not for everyone.......but I see your point.....put in time first........how much time is the limit? 1 year? 2? 6 months? PERSONALLY, 3 day a week training is not good.

I have said many times, I will never be a pro. Also, I have no interest of ever competing. I do this personal reasons. I am currenty trying to gain mass myself, like the op. I have tried a few routines and honestly the three day split is the only one I made any progress on. I believe that I read some time back where Big A said that most pros train like that in the off season. I know your credentials and respect your opinion Phil. You obviously know your stuff, so I have to ask why you find the three day split to be of little use. Keep in mind I am refering to making mass gains, not any ssort of contest prep.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

I have said many times, I will never be a pro. Also, I have no interest of ever competing. I do this personal reasons. I am currenty trying to gain mass myself, like the op. I have tried a few routines and honestly the three day split is the only one I made any progress on. I believe that I read some time back where Big A said that most pros train like that in the off season. I know your credentials and respect your opinion Phil. You obviously know your stuff, so I have to ask why you find the three day split to be of little use. Keep in mind I am refering to making mass gains, not any ssort of contest prep.

Mass is just size.......I wanted pure muscle, no fat. I wanted to gain as much muscle as fast as possible.......you do this staying under 10% bodyfat year round. With that in mind, structure your training in such a way that recovery allows you to train that muscle 2-3 times a week. Training is secondary to nutrition and supplements.......but a VERY CLOSE second..........you need all 3 to be up to par to be YOUR best.
From a PURE training standpoint, do just enough to recover in time, what ever youur schedule allows. If you train once a week, you will need more sets as you do not need to recover as quickly..... and visa versa. There are many ways to structure this, but the more you can train a bodypart, the better. An example is prison workouts. These guys blow up on pushups EVERY DAY, not once a week. I used my time as an experiment and I saw many different training styles in there. The good thing was that we were all equal, NO STEROIDS. The best looking guys, biggest, leanest, worked out every day and the muscle 2-3 times a week at LEAST. Add AAS and peptides to this and the recoverability is twofold.