natural gains post cycle?

[tkav1980]

ok fellas heres my question, my weight has bottomed out at about 7 lbs lighter than when i was on. currently im REALLY off pct is done and everything. i still want to gain. i REFUSE to believe that once the cycle is over you cant gain alot of quality muscle. forget maintaining what you got. lets get some more. so ive changed my workouts to allow for more rest. training 4 times a week. protien intake is up. now taking creatine. workout intensity is at least as good as while on if not better. weights are still pretty good, i.e. flat bench is 1 work set for 10 solid reps and 3 forced reps after failure with 350lbs. im looking for advice on what else i could do to optimize my chances for better gains. lol and yes i already contacted Phil and as pathetic as it sounds as cheap as phil is i have to save up some money to hire him. lol in the mean time any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[btech]

dude, there's nothing pathetic about it....

On a side note, you are lifting heavy weights, I imagine your other exercises are using heavy weight....even a much less advanced guy (compared to you) like notices a big difference between a three day a week routine. Even if you're not "tired" on four days a week, your excitable "Let's get this shit rolling" attitude will be more prevalent when each day is preceeded by a day of rest.

 

[tkav1980]

lol i meant pathetic as in for phil's knowledge he's cheap as hell and it still requires me to save for a couple of weeks...lol

 

[tkav1980]

my current program in a modified version of something i saw on here. its one working set per exercise, and 3 exercises per bodypart split like this.
day 1 chest back delts
day 2 legs arms abs
day 3 off
day 4 chest back delts
day 5 legs arms abs
day 6&7 off
every work set is done to failure meaning theres nothing i can do to complete another rep unassisted, then my spotter helps me get 3 more reps but makes sure not to give me too much help so that each rep past "failure" requires 100% effort. i dont know if i would benefit from 1 exercise per bosy part done rest pause. but so far my body is liking this. i always get in a bit of a slump like im sure most guys do post cycle but instead this time im going to make some serious gains, id like to go into my next cycle heavier than i was at the end of this last one.

 

[RONJON]

been there many times bro...its mental for me..but you can still gain! I usually try a new program to really shock my body and I take a whole lot of creatine and some caffeine personally and of course the whey and glutamine...Just stick with it bro you will be fine

RONJON

 

[KillerStack]

i REFUSE to believe that once the cycle is over you cant gain alot of quality muscle. forget maintaining what you got. lets get some more.

If you can gain off drugs you did something very wrong on cycle. If you can maintain even a little of the steroid gains, a little over your previous clean weight, you're doing great. I really don't follow your logic here.

 

[KillerStack]

been there many times bro...its mental for me..but you can still gain! I usually try a new program to really shock my body and I take a whole lot of creatine and some caffeine personally and of course the whey and glutamine...Just stick with it bro you will be fine

RONJON

Creatine and caffeine allow you to continue pile on muscle off steroids. What the hell?

 

[tkav1980]

killer i meant that besides just keeping what you gained from your cycle i dont see why you cant continue to grow after your cycle once you body normalizes.

 

[KillerStack]

killer i meant that besides just keeping what you gained from your cycle i dont see why you cant continue to grow after your cycle once you body normalizes.

Hmm... I'm not sure I get what you mean. You are lucky if you manage to stabilize at a little higher clean weight than before the cycle. Unless you were a total beginner when you took the cycle the post-cycle/between-cycle period is about trying to keep some of the muscle you gained with drugs. You definitely wont grow - you are fighting to maintain.

 

[loganb_football]

Let's take into consideration that your testosterone might be a little low right now.... So if insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body you should use that to your advantage. Do you kinda see where Im getting at? You should also use fats to try and optimize hormone levels...

 

[Pawwn]

Off for me is Anavar and Tren Make good gains

 

[eroc613]

If you can gain off drugs you did something very wrong on cycle. If you can maintain even a little of the steroid gains, a little over your previous clean weight, you're doing great. I really don't follow your logic here.

I keep my weight within 2#'s of what I gain. (10# gain on= 2# loss after coming off) or 200 lbs on = 198 lbs off

 

[Tough Old Man]

my current program in a modified version of something i saw on here. its one working set per exercise, and 3 exercises per bodypart split like this.
day 1 chest back delts
day 2 legs arms abs
day 3 off
day 4 chest back delts
day 5 legs arms abs
day 6&7 off
every work set is done to failure meaning theres nothing i can do to complete another rep unassisted, then my spotter helps me get 3 more reps but makes sure not to give me too much help so that each rep past "failure" requires 100% effort. i dont know if i would benefit from 1 exercise per bosy part done rest pause. but so far my body is liking this. i always get in a bit of a slump like im sure most guys do post cycle but instead this time im going to make some serious gains, id like to go into my next cycle heavier than i was at the end of this last one.

I'm basically doing the samething but changed it around a little..The first two workout days are 6 reps trying to make number six be a failure rep..Because of going heavier these two days, I find I now need to take off two days after this..Then the next two days all exercises are 12 reps with number 12 being failure..Because of the lighter weight I only need one day rest after this..

 

[tkav1980]

thanks tough! thats the kind of advice im looking for! so today ill go light and aim for 12 rep failures then after my 2 days off mon and tues ill go hard for 6. i feel like that after coming off i need more recovery time and cant go heavy heavy all the time. im hoping this and hopefuly some diet advice weill keep me growing.

 

[tkav1980]

would this be the best time to look into something like IGF1-LR3 as well?

 

[KillerStack]

I keep my weight within 2#'s of what I gain. (10# gain on= 2# loss after coming off) or 200 lbs on = 198 lbs off

Which means you didn't gain much at all from the drugs, no water retention either. 200lbs must be close to your natural limit.

 

[parrajm]

i think what killer is trying to say is that if you cycled past your natural genetic potential for mass, you will not be able to gain mass off cycle. But if you haven't hit your genetic potential for mass on cycle, then you may be able to make some gains. Even then, gains will be difficult

 

[Thor]

YES

Hmm... I'm not sure I get what you mean. You are lucky if you manage to stabilize at a little higher clean weight than before the cycle. Unless you were a total beginner when you took the cycle the post-cycle/between-cycle period is about trying to keep some of the muscle you gained with drugs. You definitely wont grow - you are fighting to maintain.

because if this wasn't the case then you wouldn't even NEED to cycle !

 

[tkav1980]

because if this wasn't the case then you wouldn't even NEED to cycle !

let me play devils advocat here. we all know just about anyone can get to be 100lbs over weight eating poorly not exercising, excessive eating. and that doesnt take steroids. so why cant we do that with muscle as well. and lets say youve been on AAS for a while, say a year, you gain 25 lbs in 4 months and maintain that weight with a maintainence dose for 8 months. can you in theory reset your base weight to be higher than it would be if you were always natural? i cant wait to hire phil and see what he has to say about all this. id love to know if my thinking is even on the right track.

 

[tkav1980]

also....what if you do overeat and train to gain. can it be done in a way that can push you past your "natural" limits? and i mean over eat but keep a verry clean diet.