Need opinions about the all or nothing theory...

[MR.BICEPS]

Lets see what we really know about bodybuilding?

Okay heres my question... Its a tough one...

.. For the average guy who does not compete but only wants to look good without spending unecessary time in the gym do you believe its really that important to do more than one exercise per bodypart to adeqautely work the muscle?

Lets use lats for example..I know that chin ups are supposedly for width and rows are for adding thickness to the back. However have you ever noticed in the the gym when a guy does lat pulldowns who is very lean,his back thickness muscle appears to be getting stimulation along with the width muscles? Strange hugh???

Another example is the bench presses .. Ever notice what happens to a genetically gifted guys chest at the gym when he finishes a set of bench presses? Its not just his lower pecs that are pumped but his whole pec region! Kinda weird aint it????

Same thing goes for shoulders. A guy with good shoulder genetics seems to get an amazing workout form dumbell presses along..Its like all three heads of the delts are pumped..AMAZING hugh???

So my thinking is this: Its not the different exercises that are bring about the shape-striations we see on stage but diet-cardio-genetics...

My thinking is why waste time with isolation exercises and such when we could find that one exercise that seems the most productive for our body. For example, "one armed dumbell spiders curls for biceps" work best for my biceps so why not forget the rest of the bicep exercise like incline dubell curls?? Would adding incline dumbell curls really make that much difference?

WHY WHY WHY does the average joe need all these exercises like rows,pushdowns,flyes,lateral,leg ext, if the basics are more effective at stimulating muscle mass????

I'd love to hear some opinions on this..Some of you professional trainers should have a good answer for "when a muscle group contracts its all or nothing"?????????

This should make for a nice discussion..

THANK YOU....

 

[BigBoyJ]

In my opinion, the compound movements are the key, but I think that finding a few isolation movements that work best for you is a good idea too. I think the compound movements are nice for that overall power in a particular muscle group and the isolation movements at the end of a workout help to fill the muscle with blood. I think both types of movements have a purpose, so incorporating both into your workout is best. I will also say this. After all my years of training, I have found the exercises that are the most effective for me personally and I never change those exercises. All I do is add more weight and more reps, that's how I improve.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

In my opinion, the compound movements are the key, but I think that finding a few isolation movements that work best for you is a good idea too. I think the compound movements are nice for that overall power in a particular muscle group and the isolation movements at the end of a workout help to fill the muscle with blood. I think both types of movements have a purpose, so incorporating both into your workout is best. I will also say this. After all my years of training, I have found the exercises that are the most effective for me personally and I never change those exercises. All I do is add more weight and more reps, that's how I improve.

I understand completely what you are saying..

Now what if you varied the reps on the basic movements to add extra blood into the muslces.. For example on bench press do 15-12-10-8--6-4 reps to hit all the fibers,do you think that would produce a similar affect as adding in the isloation exercises?

 

[BigBoyJ]

I understand completely what you are saying..

Now what if you varied the reps on the basic movements to add extra blood into the muslces.. For example on bench press do 15-12-10-8--6-4 reps to hit all the fibers,do you think that would produce a similar affect as adding in the isloation exercises?

Not really. Bench Press doesn't cause the full stretch and complete contraction of the pecs like dumbell flyes. I think that bench press would cause a more intense contraction in the "power range" of the pecs, but the full stretch and complete contraction can only be done with an isolation movement. Working the muscle through the full range of motion is just as important as blasting the power range of a movement. That's why I think both are necessary to get the optimal result.

 

[DIEZEL666]

It's all about how many muscle fibers are activated during a set. Isolation exercises don't cause many to "fire" so they won't be as effective as a compound movement.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

It's all about how many muscle fibers are activated during a set. Isolation exercises don't cause many to "fire" so they won't be as effective as a compound movement.

So do you believe one could get by with doing only compound movements as opposed to having to add isolation exercises??

I see a debate coming because we now have two differrent but interesting theories that oppose each other..

Hmm....

 

[Dave_19]

You sound like a spokesperson for the total gym or boflex. But its true the average person can get great results from just the basic exercies. shaping is usually not a priority for anyone with average goals.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

You sound like a spokesperson for the total gym or boflex. But its true the average person can get great results from just the basic exercies. shaping is usually not a priority for anyone with average goals.

So you think isolation exercises are for shaping and basic exercises are not for shaping?

 

[Dave_19]

So you think isolation exercises are for shaping and basic exercises are not for shaping?

I think if your going to step on stage you need a variety of evercises. if your an avg joe like you said its not so important to have a wider variety. nothing to do with isolation or compound, but stick with compoud if your only going to do 1 exercise since it covers the most.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

I think if your going to step on stage you need a variety of evercises. if your an avg joe like you said its not so important to have a wider variety. nothing to do with isolation or compound, but stick with compoud if your only going to do 1 exercise since it covers the most.

Dave, thats the way I see it..

I have read several articles in the past that do not believe isolation exercises shape the muscle they believe shape comes from genetics along not the exercise one performs. This might explain why some powelifters resemble over weight bodybuilders when they rely upon basics not isolation exercises.

I still believe one can go way past the average Joe with doing only one exercise per body part if the genectics are there. I think genetics are the determining factor not necessarily doing multiple exercises to stimulate the muscle region as a whole..

In reality doing more exercises may be hindering because of overtraining the system as a whole and undertraining the core exercies that break down the most muscle fibers..

Anyone have a comment on this theory?

 

[Dave_19]

Dave, thats the way I see it..

I have read several articles in the past that do not believe isolation exercises shape the muscle they believe shape comes from genetics along not the exercise one performs. This might explain why some powelifters resemble over weight bodybuilders when they rely upon basics not isolation exercises.

I still believe one can go way past the average Joe with doing only one exercise per body part if the genectics are there. I think genetics are the determining factor not necessarily doing multiple exercises to stimulate the muscle region as a whole..

In reality doing more exercises may be hindering because of overtraining the system as a whole and undertraining the core exercies that break down the most muscle fibers..

Anyone have a comment on this theory?

well a muscle can only really do 2 things. grow and shrink.. shaping is hard word to use, your not really shapping the muscle, just isolating certain areas. something like your delt has 3 heads. a shoulder press machine will cover all, but hardly the rear. thats where other exercises come in. but the point is compound will cover everything, just something like a shoulder press may only require a small % of help from your rear delts.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

well a muscle can only really do 2 things. grow and shrink.. shaping is hard word to use, your not really shapping the muscle, just isolating certain areas. something like your delt has 3 heads. a shoulder press machine will cover all, but hardly the rear. thats where other exercises come in. but the point is compound will cover everything, just something like a shoulder press may only require a small % of help from your rear delts.

I agree with what you are saying.. Now do you believe the one back exercise lets say chinups would indirectly work the rear delts and stimulate were the shoulder presses did not?

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

Mr. B,
I think you should pick 2-3 exercises per bodypart and train using 2-3 work sets per exercise and you can get great results. Granted that you are intense, consistent, have sound nutrition and get enough recovery time.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

Mr. B,
I think you should pick 2-3 exercises per bodypart and train using 2-3 work sets per exercise and you can get great results. Granted that you are intense, consistent, have sound nutrition and get enough recovery time.

P, I knew you'd hav eto get into this little debate..lol

Two exercises per body part is where I have done my best overall so I plan to stick with it..

What started me on this topic was an article I read on the net about a week ago. It explained how genetics not exercise selections was the determining factor in muscle shape-size..

This article also strongly believed most pro's probably would not look any different than they do now if all they did was two basic exercises per body part not four or more... Interesting theory whether it be true or not...

 

[SAMMYSDAD]

This is what Phils been saying all along.

Phils training theories fit right into this discussion. I hope he will post on this.

 

[MR.BICEPS]

Phils training theories fit right into this discussion. I hope he will post on this.

Okay Phil lets hear it bro..

 

[DIEZEL666]

Yea, ask Phil how many isolation exercises he does.

 

[jerrywear]

what i would think and everybody know that by now anyway,everybody is a diferent,i know bodybuilder who has 22inch arms he never used more then 50lb dumb to do biseps so where i can curl 100lb and then get the last set of 60's to get more blood in my biceps,it does mean shit for him,i would think he would smile at me if he would see that i can do that,but my point is we cant say yes its this or its that,how can you tell on diferent people?you cant because you never worked with them or even see them training.
i wish to have that easy to make my legs grow lets say,and they dont.and again i know guy who does legs 1 time a month and they are so fucking big its not even funy,but again lets go to the gym in figer it out whats works for you or what doesnt.
its just my opinion.