Nitrates (N03-t in particular) are one of the new things in pre-workouts. Dangerous with cialis/pde-5?

[Knight9]

Combining them could be potentially dangerous, but most people aren't going to use high enough doses of nitrates to be problematic. A much bigger risk would be combining Cialis with prescription nitrites, such as nitroglycerin, etc. A nitrate must first convert to nitrite before becoming active, so we have both a conversion and a dosage barrier protecting us from dangerously low BP. At some point, if the nitrate dose got high enough, it would indeed become dangerous, but that would normally require much higher doses than what we see in pump products. This is not to say that we shouldn't exercise caution...because we should, but I've seen many use a nitrate product at the same time Cialis is still active and there were no issues. Prescription nitrites and Cialis is a completely different story. Even nitrites alone can be dangerous. Just a few extra tabs of nitroglycerin and the person could run into serious issues, but the lethal dose can vary quite a bit. It could be as low as 200 mg and as high as 1,200 mg+, so for bodybuilding purposes, it's good to just stay away from nitrites altogether.

As far as bodybuilding is concerned, rather than attempting to max out the pump via blood vessel expansion alone, it would be safer and more effective to take a more holistic approach. For example, using nitric oxide boosters in combination with products that increase overall blood volume, such as certain forms of stabilized glycerin (HydroPrime, etc.). You'll get better results and it'll be safer.

Funny you mention that as I have a package of Hydroprime on my desk and have been experimenting with it hoping it clumps to a lesser degree than other glycerol powders.

Good to see you here Mike!

 

[Type-IIx]

Which?
L Citrulline and L-Arginine?
L citrulline, L Arginine and Nitrates?
Nitrates and PDE-5i?
All of the above?



Do you take anything for pre-workout or performance?

Correct brother, I don't use any pre-workouts presently and have not for some time (I do occasionally drink a sugar-free energy drink, i.e., caffeine, and drink coffee before training).

Now, I am not, myself, constitutionally risk-averse (e.g., Craze & original formula Jack3d were mainstay preworkouts when available).

If I were trying to weigh the use of these agents ("NO boosters"; PDE-5 inhibitors; nitrates; L-arginine & its counterparts) in combination, I'd view my expressed recommendation (that combining any of these agents; any and all of the permutations you suggested) as a reasonable risk-averse position and Mike Arnold's as a reasonable risk-seeking position.

Neither position is incorrect: I've gone about simplifying what we know and assumed that the reward (improved reactive hyperemia ["the pump" effect], potential improved O₂ + nutrient delivery to working muscles; decreased fatigue and muscle soreness; etc.) is outweighed by the risks (hypotension & its consequences, e.g., falls, death, etc.) in consideration of the inherent uncertainty (due to factors including NO's fluctuations & dissociation between dose- & response; synergistic [greater than additive] nature of these agents in augmenting NO & hypotensive risk) of dose/response or precise prediction of the interaction between agents.

This may not be your position (or assumption) - but an important qualification is that these risks are uncertain (not quantifiable by dose/response [largely because this is subject to profound variation due to NO's inherent lability]). I strove only illustrate the known parts of the mechanisms involved, separate from expressing a tendency here to minimize potential harm by weighing heavily the uncertainty element (informed by illustrated synergy of the agents in promoting hypotension & NO's lability) and highly unfavorable outcomes of injury or death versus the comparatively minor rewards of the pump and other ergogenic benefits, etc.

To state a conclusion/recommendation as requested, a risk-averse judgment was transposed onto the recommendation (this is why I usually avoid this).

Now, only you can stand in your place and assess the risk/reward tradeoffs to make a reasoned decision. But you have a lot of facts to work with.