Non-bodybuilding workout ideas?

[Elvia1023]

I look at you and think salsa dancing.

 

[Girth]

If you have interest in intelligent, comprehensive systems, sample material from Buddy Morris and Joe Kenn. Very accomplished, successful NFL strength coaches.

td and I are definitely in the same station with our trains of thought. The 2 gents he mentions are my mentors and I've been fortunate enough to speak with them both along with some of their interns and trainees. These guys know their stuff when it comes to training the athlete alongside their practice schedules.

But you can't compare yourself to an NFL player. These guys are such freaks that both the guys mentioned above have said the same thing. Their main goal with training of NFL players is, "Too not fuck them up". They both have trained athletes at all levels and the distinction between NFL and even Div 1 athletes is so stupidly wide.

Imagine being considered "fast" and then have a guy run faster backward than you can run forward................

 

[Girth]

Tired of only having "show muscles." No amount of HIIT seems to do all too much for stamina unless I'm also dieting. I think it's because I've gotten so much bigger than I am meant to be. I was genetically designed to be really skinny.

This is a HUGE point that you have to accept. It's one of the reasons most guys who fight/compete in any kind of weight class always get their ass handed to them from a stamina standpoint, when they move up in a weight class, as opposed to coming down. Despite what you do from a muscle/conditioning standpoint, you simply have a genetic blood vessel design which is meant for X amount of bodyweight. When you venture above that, you just can't take that network with you at the same rate you can take your muscle mass.

So you simply have to decide what you want to excel at. The other thing to consider is the amount of androgens you are running. Almost anyone who goes much above the high end of normal T levels will see a decrease in aerobic capacity.

 

[LK3]

td and I are definitely in the same station with our trains of thought. The 2 gents he mentions are my mentors and I've been fortunate enough to speak with them both along with some of their interns and trainees. These guys know their stuff when it comes to training the athlete alongside their practice schedules.

But you can't compare yourself to an NFL player. These guys are such freaks that both the guys mentioned above have said the same thing. Their main goal with training of NFL players is, "Too not fuck them up". They both have trained athletes at all levels and the distinction between NFL and even Div 1 athletes is so stupidly wide.

Imagine being considered "fast" and then have a guy run faster backward than you can run forward................

lol

thanks for chiming in over here bud!

i have yet to have time to go into some detail on the things i mentioned earlier. hoping today/tomorrow i can.

i feel like what you are talking about escapes so many here. mostly because the ppl on this board and those who are obsessed with drugs/bb idea are so because they simply do not have those genetics, nor have they ever really seen them.


i also think this genetic idea is why so many ppl do not make the sort of progress they want. they keep trying to use routines and ideas that come form genetic elites, then when they fail they turn to drugs as we all know drugs level the playing field. lol

my point in this is that while many do not believe in "over training" it is very real and what holds many back from there goals.

you need to adapt a lot of these ideas that work for mutants to your shitty abilities. that means much less work. there in i think is why the idea of a typical body building routine sets most up for failure.

where do these ideas come from?
that whole standard bb approach?

i think goes back to wieder mags, arnold etc.
that all just got worse over time.

that is also why if done right dc sort of training is one of the most effective tools for mass building. again the problem is "done right".

everybody wants to jump to the super advanced routine. but guess what... you are not super advanced!

when trying to teach someone an idea like that its like pulling teeth, they just do not understand that it is going to take months of learning just to do the most basic routine correctly. that months of learning is simply trying to learn how to generate the intesity required for one all out work set. such a simple idea so bastardized and over complicated.

even to do that effectively requires huge amounts of food and rest while supporting the body with aas and every other recovery tool at your disposal.

the whole bb idea simply leads to over training and or wasting hours of your valuable time in they gym.

i keep relearning this as i go.

honestly cutting back my intesity has been the biggest help in recent years. i simply push too hard and break my body, my mind wants to do things that my body can not support.

i guess that is again the conundrum of the obsessive mentality

i need to go look at some of the vids that were posted, but why i asked you to chime in was to help illistrate that even these freaks do not run around in circles and try to lift weights too fast n too hard.

if your heart isnt beating through your chest after a work set of squats then those squats didnt mean squat! lol



happy turkey day!

 

[LK3]

I am guessing there are plenty of cross fit forums geared towards this sort of training.

from the little i have seen crossfit is a recipe for disaster.

i doubt many would be able to continue that sort of thing for 20 years.

we need to learn that this is about the long haul.
that simple concept again gets lost around here.
i understand why, shit my mom didnt think id make it past 30. lol

 

[LK3]

you ever seen @realworld_tactical train? or that girl Heba Ali @evolve.nation workouts??? meadows just signed her... both do some brutal training

Special Forces Strength Training with SWAT Tony Sentmanat | Muscle Madness - YouTube

BEAST in the Beauty - Heba Ali | Muscle Madness - YouTube

pulled a hamstring and tore a rotator cuff just watching this. lol

i would tell most ppl to not even think of doing most of this, those two seem like young ppl with great genetics.

guys 35+ forget it

 

[nothuman]

This is a HUGE point that you have to accept. It's one of the reasons most guys who fight/compete in any kind of weight class always get their ass handed to them from a stamina standpoint, when they move up in a weight class, as opposed to coming down. Despite what you do from a muscle/conditioning standpoint, you simply have a genetic blood vessel design which is meant for X amount of bodyweight. When you venture above that, you just can't take that network with you at the same rate you can take your muscle mass.



So you simply have to decide what you want to excel at. The other thing to consider is the amount of androgens you are running. Almost anyone who goes much above the high end of normal T levels will see a decrease in aerobic capacity.

Good post. I’ve always seen noobs on steroid forums parrot that AAS increase stamina and endurance but it’s the complete opposite for me. I don’t see how an increase in resting heart rate can improve cardio. That makes no sense. HGH hurts my cardio too.

I didn’t know for sure that putting on a lot more size than we were intended to means we can’t bring that same conditioning with us. Is that real science? I mean it sure seems like it to me. I went from 135, got to 180 naturally, to now 220.

 

[mikennrg]

Good post. I’ve always seen noobs on steroid forums parrot that AAS increase stamina and endurance but it’s the complete opposite for me. I don’t see how an increase in resting heart rate can improve cardio. That makes no sense. HGH hurts my cardio too.

I didn’t know for sure that putting on a lot more size than we were intended to means we can’t bring that same conditioning with us. Is that real science? I mean it sure seems like it to me. I went from 135, got to 180 naturally, to now 220.

What kind of stamina are you looking for?


I used to play in an annual softball tournament with a few guys that ran marathons. Both of them were incredibly slow and were gassed halfway through the tournament. It wasn't them not being used to short bursts since we played in a league all through the year. Whether you believe the body convert muscle fiber types or not it was clear the training they did changed them.

Myself on the other hand probably couldn't even run a 10k. But I train like an athlete and I handled the tournament fine and was much faster than them in quick bursts. This was all with me weighing 50 more pounds than these guys. My point is it's two different types of stamina. I tuned my body for anaerobic endurance and they were tuned for aerobic endurance. You could probably be okay at both,but it would be a jack of all trades master or none type of deal. I'd prioritize what's important to you, but realise at 220 you'll likely never be great a great aerobic athlete.

 

[nothuman]

What kind of stamina are you looking for?


I used to play in an annual softball tournament with a few guys that ran marathons. Both of them were incredibly slow and were gassed halfway through the tournament. It wasn't them not being used to short bursts since we played in a league all through the year. Whether you believe the body convert muscle fiber types or not it was clear the training they did changed them.

Myself on the other hand probably couldn't even run a 10k. But I train like an athlete and I handled the tournament fine and was much faster than them in quick bursts. This was all with me weighing 50 more pounds than these guys. My point is it's two different types of stamina. I tuned my body for anaerobic endurance and they were tuned for aerobic endurance. You could probably be okay at both,but it would be a jack of all trades master or none type of deal. I'd prioritize what's important to you, but realise at 220 you'll likely never be great a great aerobic athlete.

It would be nice to play full court basketball again without being so gassed out since that is my background. Problem is I don't want to lose muscle so it's hard to find a middle ground, like a jack of all trades as you put it. That's very interesting about the marathon runners in the softball tournament. I wouldn't have guessed they'd be gassed from that.

 

[bber99]

I'd suggest crossfit workouts. The coaching is hit or miss but if you're looking for a "jack of all trades" kind of body that is somewhat strong, somewhat good endurance, and somewhat aesthetic. I'd opt for that. Especially since they can be challenging and different

 

[nothuman]

I'd suggest crossfit workouts. The coaching is hit or miss but if you're looking for a "jack of all trades" kind of body that is somewhat strong, somewhat good endurance, and somewhat aesthetic. I'd opt for that. Especially since they can be challenging and different

I'd like to but crossfit gyms here are insanely priced and I'd have to quit my current gym and travel halfway across the city. I wish it were more simple. I do like crossfit despite all the shit people talk about it here

 

[LK3]

Good post. I’ve always seen noobs on steroid forums parrot that AAS increase stamina and endurance but it’s the complete opposite for me. I don’t see how an increase in resting heart rate can improve cardio. That makes no sense. HGH hurts my cardio too.

I didn’t know for sure that putting on a lot more size than we were intended to means we can’t bring that same conditioning with us. Is that real science? I mean it sure seems like it to me. I went from 135, got to 180 naturally, to now 220.

bro, i have said this for years and provided many real world examples.
i was digging around for the old speedbacker posts on the navey seals we helped but couldnt find.

aas are counter productive to "real" athletic sorta things.
this is not a question. lol

if you wana run around/fight/ or do athletic sorta stuff aas hurt you in doses talked about here.

the video the swat guy made me think, i mean shit, we had real seals going through hell week talking in detail about what was up. lol

yes for sure hgh at doses you prob use is gona hurt!

now just on a health basis since maybe thats something you think about... look at your words, adding all that weight, you did not get an extra heart, same hart has to now pump blood to all that extra tissue that is working, muscle needs a lot of o2 to function too, then the waste products from it all...

if you want to run up n down a bball court you are gona have to up your cardio training and it would help to make other changes that help to address the increased work load/ waste output.

i wil get into some detail on what i do for training that helps support muscle that has been previously gained. there in lies the key, support. you support what has been built which can then allow you to focus on some new goals but... if you wana run a marathon you not gona do it looking like a bb, or even relatively jacked.

n sorry maybe i miss something but softball/baseball??? how does one get gassed? im not even sure those count as athletic activities.. lol kinda sounds like golf.

 

[heavyhitter]

pushing and pulling sleds, vehicles, farmers carries....stuff like that is all great for building stamina without cutting into recovery time or hindering muscular gains too much. In fact it can be beneficial.That's what the guys over at westside do. They call it GPP(general physical preparedness)

 

[Girth]

n sorry maybe i miss something but softball/baseball??? how does one get gassed? im not even sure those count as athletic activities.. lol kinda sounds like golf.

HAAHAHHA......beat me to it. No offense to whomever it was that posted about softball, but hell I wouldn't even put baseball into the category of "athletic". Those runners were probably still gassed from their "regular" training and just felt shitty in general.........but anyway.

The last thing I wanted to point out is that I "know" what you want to see but it just can't be done in a post. I'm sorry, it just can't as the only answer you need for your question about training is, "IT DEPENDS". I mean it. Anyone who posts a routine is giving you one snippet of one day/week that is applicable to them and their goals. How can you do that for anyone except maybe the newbie high schooler who just learned what a Power Cage is.

There is so much to know about anyone who already has some time vested in development. What do they want to do, what can they do, how much time, where are they now, the list goes on and on.

About the smartest thing I've seen recently is a formula by James Smith whereby he assigns a value to each component of an athlete's training that is then weighted by importance/volume/intensity/time. The sum of each component is then totaled to give an indication as to how much work that was for that athlete's ability. That's his stuff and again, he has it worked out for HIS athletes.

The other thing I've yet to venture down though I've talked about for a while now is Joel Jamieson's HRV stuff. It seems to make a lot of sense because it literally gives you a personal indication DAILY as to where you are at on the recovery scale. THAT alone will probably get you 90% of the way there because it's not WHAT you do, as that's up to you. It's WHAT you can recover from and WHEN.

Damn....I think I just motivated myself to fork over the cash for that......Stay tuned as I might just do that on behalf of those here. It is black Friday, and that IS a valid investment in these eyes.

 

[LK3]

lol!

yeah, if you can drink beer, smoke cigs/dip while doing it, it doesnt seem like too much work. lol

your post is also why i find it sort of hard/irrelevent to post some of what i do.

my stuff is totally geared towards my own ability to recover and as you point out that is an ever changing thing with so many tiny variables, and it is always changing.

this is also why i see so much of the typical training as a set up for failure. ppl just go to the gym in this never ending do the same shit training. i see that as a waste of time. to do things "right" its a never ending cycle of up n down, two steps forward one step back. the training cycle will depend on where you start and what else you incorporate.

so much of what i do has been learned the hard way, in getting injured. over the past idk 5+ years. each time i have injured myself with essentially warm up weights. any time i put 3 plates on each side of the bar no matter how light it feels some thing popped. then dealing with arthritis issues ( psoriatic arthritis ) and weak conective tissue.

can give a rough idea of things but it needs to be dialed in individually and there in lies the complexity.

you n i have a very different approach but essentially wind up with the same idea, you find a way to make it a mathmatical formula and im all about the constant fluidity of life. lol

good stuff bro!
be back later!

 

[LK3]

pushing and pulling sleds, vehicles, farmers carries....stuff like that is all great for building stamina without cutting into recovery time or hindering muscular gains too much. In fact it can be beneficial.That's what the guys over at westside do. They call it GPP(general physical preparedness)

i like the idea of some of this but again the reality of it can be different.

doing things like that weighted sprints ( essentially ) can open the door for injury.

if you get injured your progress stops and you go waaaay back

again the mind often wants things that the body simply can not handle.

 

[heavyhitter]

i like the idea of some of this but again the reality of it can be different.

doing things like that weighted sprints ( essentially ) can open the door for injury.

if you get injured your progress stops and you go waaaay back

again the mind often wants things that the body simply can not handle.

That's the case with anything though. You can get injured just as easily deadlifting or bench pressing. Dragging a sled is pretty easy on the joints

 

[nothuman]

bro, i have said this for years and provided many real world examples.

i was digging around for the old speedbacker posts on the navey seals we helped but couldnt find.



aas are counter productive to "real" athletic sorta things.

this is not a question. lol



if you wana run around/fight/ or do athletic sorta stuff aas hurt you in doses talked about here.



the video the swat guy made me think, i mean shit, we had real seals going through hell week talking in detail about what was up. lol



yes for sure hgh at doses you prob use is gona hurt!



now just on a health basis since maybe thats something you think about... look at your words, adding all that weight, you did not get an extra heart, same hart has to now pump blood to all that extra tissue that is working, muscle needs a lot of o2 to function too, then the waste products from it all...



if you want to run up n down a bball court you are gona have to up your cardio training and it would help to make other changes that help to address the increased work load/ waste output.



i wil get into some detail on what i do for training that helps support muscle that has been previously gained. there in lies the key, support. you support what has been built which can then allow you to focus on some new goals but... if you wana run a marathon you not gona do it looking like a bb, or even relatively jacked.



n sorry maybe i miss something but softball/baseball??? how does one get gassed? im not even sure those count as athletic activities.. lol kinda sounds like golf.

I’d love to know how people like John Cena or other large wwe wrestlers have the stamina that they do

 

[heavyhitter]

I’d love to know how people like John Cena or other large wwe wrestlers have the stamina that they do

Genetics man....Cena's a freak. And like you mentioned its harder for people who aren't naturally supposed to be very large. Once you get to the upper range or go over your body's natural genetic limit the more this comes into play

 

[rmtt]

Genetics man....Cena's a freak. And like you mentioned its harder for people who aren't naturally supposed to be very large. Once you get to the upper range or go over your body's natural genetic limit the more this comes into play

I agree....genetics will have one of the biggest impact.

I think you should look at how much are you willing to trade for one side to the other.

I'm only 5'7" and used to weigh about 210 constantly. I would have people comment the usual stuff..... you look in great shape, your built like a tank....blah...blah...etc.

When I got injured and lost all the weight....after I resumed training and focused more on being "fit" especially since I'm getting older. A lot more cardio based stuff, went back to boxing (I boxed for years when younger) started running more, even started doing these obstacle training courses with friends who are SWAT team members...etc.

But my mobility was just leaps and bounds above where I used to be. More flexible, nimble and light on my feet, etc.

Since being back in the gym regularly, I'm almost at the same strength levels as when I was heavier, but I now only weigh about 180lbs and very much leaner than before.

The point of this long post is that even almost 30lbs lighter, I still get the same comments as I did before.

People will tell me that I look great, must spend all my time exercising, etc. But I can go run/bike with friends if I want, and recently did a 7 mile hike with a group where the elevation changed almost 4,000 ft from start to end....and I stayed with the front of the group when I would have usually been bringing up the rear just a little time ago.

I generally always have pretty good blood work, but being lighter made that improve for me as well.

Being a short guy, I was always afraid to lose weight. But seeing where I'm at now, I've gotten over that size is everything stage. In my eyes, I'm sure that I had some body dysmorphia going on and that is a hard thing to overcome.

I think even if you traded 10-20 lbs of weight to follow different goals, you will still stand out more than 90% of the general population....(in my area especially as I rarely see people who look in great shape...even in my own gym).

Being lighter.....most people guess my bodyweight 15+ pounds heavier than what I really am because I'm much leaner. Yeah it's an illusion, but still the same impact.

As many have mentioned on here, there are plenty of ways to get where you want to be at. You just have to find an approach that keeps you interested and motivated. I box, still do Aikido (although not as hard as before because I'm more aware of my joints) and will pretty much try anything once. Haven't tried Cross Fit, but I have friends that do that and look great.

I've got one friend who is into gymnastics. He doesn't even lift for size, but in a t-shirt he looks like he would spend a lot of time in a gym doing stuff we would do. He's invited me to train with him some, and I am thinking about taking him up on his offer. Just another tool in the arsenal.

Sorry for rambling....but I applaud you for looking into this now at your age vs. someone like me who waited later in life to try some of this stuff.

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