Piracetam and Pramiracetam?

[Jrflex10er]

What's the difference between Piracetam and Pramiracetam? And how do you take it since it's powder form?

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

1/2 teaspoon pram = ~500mg

i dont know about pira

pram = not tolerance develops, no loading phase, positive effect on motivation
pira = tolerance, loading, not as good, but good enough to have a positive synergystic effect when taken with pram.

choline would also be beneficial...

BJ should really chime in here as this is his specialty.

 

[BrooklynJuice]

1/2 teaspoon of Pram is ~500mg. A good dose is 350 to 1000mg everyday. Two doses is best but once a day dosing in AM is OK. It has a pronounced effect on motivation and for me thers a silght mood enhancement (subtle). It is NOT choline dependent so therefore loading or cycling is NOT required but I usually recommend cycle everything (even simple stuff like anti-oxidants).

Piracetam is about the same per 1/2 teaspoon (might get heavier as it like to hold on to any water in the air it can, hence it will harden up as a powder into rock). Piracetam is noticed better over a longer period of time. Like pram, it may improve memory, learning and cognitive abilities. Pira is choline dependent so a good source of choline is a must. Alpha-GPC is my favorite source for choline with CDP-Choline next in line. Piracetam need to be loaded as well. I usually recommend 4000-5000mg for 3 days in divided doses. Unlike Pram which is tasteless, pira taste HORRIBLE so cap it or be ready to chase it. After loading 800 to 2400mg a day is normal untill effect dimish. Then either cycle off or re-load. Headaches could be an indication of choline deficiency. With pira, verbal communication and reading retainment seems to be most pronouced effect.

Most 'racetams have lots of research posted over the internet and research posted at pubmed. Both pira and pram have neuro-protective effects along with it cognitive benefits. Pram effects are usually noticed very quickly while pira needs to be loaded. Although some are non-responders (as with most tthings) but just because you dont *feel* anything doesnt mean there isnt any percieved benefit. However I always have many noticiable reaction to 'racetam supplementation.

 

[Jrflex10er]

thanks BJ! that answers all my questions

 

[Big A]

What about ginko biloba? Is that worth anything or is it hogwash like most supps?

 

[Snarf]

What about ginko biloba? Is that worth anything or is it hogwash like most supps?

I work for a large pharmaceutical company, and we acquired another company a few years ago that manufactured branded Ginsing and Gingko Biloba. We even had Scotty Pippin as our spokesperson so we were pumping some serious money into this. Anyway, we basically did the first large, prospectiove, randomized, placebo controlled trial with Gingko Biloba. Long story short (and we wanted this to look good), it is complete shit, although some people get a wicked headaches off of it. Save your money.

Although, as with most "organicially derived" supps, there are plenty of people who will buy them if you tell them it is "natural" and come up with some crappy study to support its use in a completely non-relevant application to what the average health nut would use it for. Not to bash the Vitamin Cottage junkies out there, but its amazing how much money gets spent on stuff that doesn't work, or the dose is way off, or all the studies were on injectables, but they will happily take it orally, digest it all and swear its a miracle cure. Either way, even after this study on Gingko was widely published people still buy it, which is good because we lost a lot of money on that piece of shit.

 

[BrooklynJuice]

ginko at the right doses, does has some nice attributes. but it usually works best part of a stack

 

[Johan]

I work for a large pharmaceutical company, and we acquired another company a few years ago that manufactured branded Ginsing and Gingko Biloba. We even had Scotty Pippin as our spokesperson so we were pumping some serious money into this. Anyway, we basically did the first large, prospectiove, randomized, placebo controlled trial with Gingko Biloba. Long story short (and we wanted this to look good), it is complete shit, although some people get a wicked headaches off of it. Save your money.

Although, as with most "organicially derived" supps, there are plenty of people who will buy them if you tell them it is "natural" and come up with some crappy study to support its use in a completely non-relevant application to what the average health nut would use it for. Not to bash the Vitamin Cottage junkies out there, but its amazing how much money gets spent on stuff that doesn't work, or the dose is way off, or all the studies were on injectables, but they will happily take it orally, digest it all and swear its a miracle cure. Either way, even after this study on Gingko was widely published people still buy it, which is good because we lost a lot of money on that piece of shit.

What about ginko bilobas properties as a antioxidant is that also just bullshit? Or did the study only involve memory improvements?

 

[BrooklynJuice]

ginko mainly works by increasing blood flow to certain areas of the brain

i wouldnt doubt it if i saw studies indicating anti-ox properties, but i have not seen them.

at or above 120mg it begins to have SSRI type qualities...

 

[Snarf]

What about ginko bilobas properties as a antioxidant is that also just bullshit? Or did the study only involve memory improvements?

I should have clarified my post - our study just evalauted cognitive functions (memory, etc). It very well might have other beneficial properties, but the cognitive ones did not work out.

 

[LEX]

the pir/pram combo is pretty good, did it for about a month and quit to see what I would notice, when I went back on I got about 3 hours of paper work done before I realized i was doing paper work...for me that is great. overall I am a little more abitious in areas that i seem to be a Add victim, stuff like paperwork and anything sitting still. Deff worth the try.