Prelimenary Blood Work

[ScottMcD1]

Often times the vets on here request guys get blood work before/during/after cycles to monitor health and recovery. Personally(and I made a thread about this 1.5-2 years ago) I had tested out at low natural levels at the time and have been conscious of this fact for awhile. I feel it was primarily a stress related issue at the time but would like to follow up and see how things have improved/stagnated(doubt it). Also I have decided I am most likely going to be experimenting with some legal PHs(orals obviously) in the upcoming "offseason" and want to be able to compare and contrast before/after blood work to be sure I am staying healthy and recovering properly.

If something is amiss in the before work I will obviously delay any hormone use and get to work on that. I was denied by the Red Cross from donating blood due to elevated RBCs and stupidly never looked into it deeper some months back, that is something I want to be sure is well within the normal range first.

I need a checklist so to speak to request by Friday morning of what to check and I want as comprehensive as a panel as possible. Hormonal, health, etc

I have been dieting with Shelby and cardio is high, food choices are clean and moderate, and I'm in a cruise phase of training and will have not touched a weight in 7 days by the time I get the blood drawn but cardio daily. If necessary to get more accurate numbers I could request a shift in cardio schedule, but would rather stick with my daily sessions unless it's imperative for accuracy.

What would you be sure to include in this blood work?

Test
Free Test
SHBG
Thyroid
IGF-1
Estro
RBCs
Vitamin D

what else should I be looking for here(liver/kidney because of the oral nature of PHs)?


Any help from our more health conscious members here is appreciated and I don't want to leave any stones unturned here, trying to do things right and look out for my long term health.(I'm only 22)

Massive G: I sent you a message on IM asking you this specifically but just in case wanted to get a group discussion in case you were busy, if you do respond over there soon don't think I disregarded your opinion please

 

[Silencer]

Def throw in a liver panel to get your baseline and then compare it after your oral usage: it usually has AST, ALT, ALP, bilirubin, etc.

Don't know if you need an estrodiol test,but if insurance is covering it, why not -- more data.

 

[Kevin666]

If you want very comprehensive, I do the following:

Testosterone - free, bioavailable, and total
SHBG
Albumin

CBC differential/Platelet - covers about 18 things including:
RBC, hemoglobin, hematocrit WBC

DHEA

Insulin

Lutenizing Hormone (LH)

Prolactin

T4, free
TSH
T3, free

PSA

Hemoglobin A1c

Zinc

Estradiol

Dihydrotestosterone

Lipid Panel - cholesterol

comprehensive metabolic panel - kidneys, liver, covers a lot

I suppose a lot depends on your insurance or how much you want to spend

 

[ScottMcD1]

If you want very comprehensive, I do the following:

I suppose a lot depends on your insurance or how much you want to spend

True, and I'll discuss this with them to see what's best for me and what's covered.

I figure if I can afford the PHs, I can fork over some cash for blood work every few months to keep the important things.

If it comes out to be a lot of money I'll think about using Direct Labs for my follow up work as long as that is reliable enough to switch labs and compare numbers. I'll come post back up here with my results to get insight onto what I was able to get done and make sure I've got the green light on all health fronts.

Thanks thus far guys

 

[ScottMcD1]

Alright so I got my results back today and figured I'd post them up for some of the bright minds over here to gloss over. Keep in mind that I did not go into the blood work fasted so some values may be slightly skewed.


CBC w/Diff/Plt Ref ranges

WBC 4.7 thsd/cumm 4.5-11.0
RBC 5.17 mill/cumm 4.2-6.20
HGB 15.5 g/dl 13.5-18.0
HCT 45.1 % 40.0-54.0
PLT 192 thsd/cumm 150-400
MCV 87.2 m3 80.0-98.0
MCH 30.0 uug 28.0-34.0
MCHC 34.4 % 32.0-36.0

Metabolic Panel

Glucose 80 mg/dl 65-99 (again...not fasted)
BUN 31 mg/dl 5-25
Creatinine 1.2 mg/dl .5-1.3
Sodium 139 mmol/L 135-145
Potassium 4.4 mmol/L 3.5-5.3
Chloride 100 mmol/L 98-110
CO2 31.0 mmol/L 21.0-32.0
AST 26 U/L 0-50
ALT 58 U/L 0-86
ALK Phos 88 U/L 20-130
T. Bili .9 mg/dl 0-1.5
T. Protein 6.6 g/dl 6.0-8.6
Albumin 4.1 g/dl 3.0-5.4
Globulin 2.5 g/dl 1.0-5.1
Calcium 8.9 mg/dl 8.2-10.5

Lipid Panel

Chol 205 mg/dl 0-200
Trig 45 mg/dl 30-150
HDL 66 mg/dl 40-100
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 0.0-6.0
LDL(direct) 134 mg/dl 0-130

Auto Diff
Lympocyte 40.9% 15-40
Monocyte 7.7% 2.0-11.0
Neutrophil 49.9% 38-75
Eosiniphil .9% 0.0-6.0
Basophil .6% 0.0-2.0

Testosterone

They only did total, even though I specifically asked for free, bio, SHBG etc

104 ng/dl 262-1593

ughhh

 

[gyno]

Scott, you are a PRIME candidate for TRT

 

[BigMatt]

Good HDL Man
Also you got Low Tryglecerides thats good too.


You need to test your Thyroid,ask for those 3 Test(All 3 must be made)
1.TSH
2.FREE T3
3.FREE T4

Your total testosterone is Way too low, i dont know your age...

How old are you?

Also Check Those:

1.TESTOSTERONE FREE
2.TESTOSTERONE TOTAL
3.FSH
4.LH
5.SHBG
6.DHEAS
7.PREGNENOLONE
8.ESTRADIOL
9.PROLACTIN
10.PROGESTERONE
11.Cortisol 8:00 AM
12.Vitamin D3 25-OH

 

[ScottMcD1]

Scott, you are a PRIME candidate for TRT

This is something I've thought for a couple years but was always pretty close, my levels are 1/2 that this time around though.

Good HDL Man
Also you got Low Tryglecerides thats good too.

Those I was happy about, the LDL has been pretty constant on any test I've had regardless of diet/cardio methods at the time.

Your total testosterone is Way too low, i dont know your age...

How old are you?

22, and yes it's been something I've been concerned with for a few years now. Previous tests were something in the ball park of 272 and 303 ng/dl going off memory.

Also Check Those:

1.TESTOSTERONE FREE
2.TESTOSTERONE TOTAL
3.FSH
4.LH
5.SHBG
6.DHEAS
7.PREGNENOLONE
8.ESTRADIOL
9.PROLACTIN
10.PROGESTERONE
11.Cortisol 8:00 AM
12.Vitamin D3 25-OH

I was assured that the free and SHBG would be tested for but only got a total number back. I would have liked to get as complete of blood work as possible but I have to say my Dr. did not make me feel comfortable and was more interested in talking about God and my eating/body image disorder than being proactive about my health. Basically counted my blessings that he did the bare minimum.

 

[ScottMcD1]

And random figure I "wrote" down on my itouch while I was there was my Blood Pressure was 117/69. Had previously(say December) tested regular at 120/80 so a mild improvement there.

 

[PsyT]

deleted

 

[Massive G]

Scott how many days off did you have off before the test from training?

Did you go in well hydrated?

Also are you on any supplements like creatine or a diet loaded with beef?

I am curious why your BUN and creatine are up well past what I expected.

As far as the hormonal panels a standard test and thyroid panel is probably the most a PCP will do.

Even an endocrinologist won't go too far into the level of detail outlined in Big Matt's post.

The PCP should be able to do free T4 and Free T3 with a TSH and and free and total testosterone.

Vitamin D tests are good info but anyone on here that has read my advice their levels shouldn't be low as I advise people to get at least 2,000 iu's a day of D3 from capsules after a loading period of 2-3 weeks of 6,000 iu's per day.
In the winter time it should be 4-5000 iu's a day. to me D3 is the most important supplement out there as it is actually a prohormone itself that enhances testosterone and thyroid hormonal secretions.

To boost testosterone somewhat naturally D3 and Gamma E zinc and vitamin C and selenium are a good start.

 

[maldorf]

TRT

I know how terrible I felt with my total test that low. Mine was stuck at around 75 ng/dl for almost 1 year. My endo finally gave up and put me on TRT. I feel so much better now. Not sure how long youve been natural, but it looks like a very viable option for you. An endo should set up you good. Normal HRT is only about 100 mg/wk or so and youll feel 10X better.

 

[ScottMcD1]

Scott how many days off did you have off before the test from training?

I don't recall exactly but it was at least 5 and possibly 7 days of no weight training. low/moderate intensity cardio daily however

Did you go in well hydrated?

I always wake up with cotton mouth no matter what I do fluids wise so I drink down 2-3 glasses right after I piss. Routinely at or above 1.25-1.5 gallons daily and I likely had 32-48 oz of water before that test .

I do heavily salt my foods on most days.

Also are you on any supplements like creatine or a diet loaded with beef?

No creatine currently, simply out of laziness to be honest. I'm supposed to

Beef I had been eating a fair bit of. Loaded I don't know, I eat 4-4.5 oz(cooked weight) portions between 0-4 times a day to be vague lol.

If I don't have any thawed out I won't have any, if I have a nice big steak and it's a low day I might have it for 3-4 of my no carb meals so it's hard to say. I use top round 95% of the time if that makes a difference, again seasoned pretty liberally with sea salt and whatever else looks good at the time.

As far as the hormonal panels a standard test and thyroid panel is probably the most a PCP will do.

Even an endocrinologist won't go too far into the level of detail outlined in Big Matt's post.

The PCP should be able to do free T4 and Free T3 with a TSH and and free and total testosterone.

Vitamin D tests are good info but anyone on here that has read my advice their levels shouldn't be low as I advise people to get at least 2,000 iu's a day of D3 from capsules after a loading period of 2-3 weeks of 6,000 iu's per day.
In the winter time it should be 4-5000 iu's a day. to me D3 is the most important supplement out there as it is actually a prohormone itself that enhances testosterone and thyroid hormonal secretions.

To boost testosterone somewhat naturally D3 and Gamma E zinc and vitamin C and selenium are a good start.

Yeah I really didn't expect to get a full panel like guys were suggesting but free T and thyroid function was something I was told I'd be seeing back. The office is closed today but they suggested I come back in at my earliest convenience(likely Tuesday) to go over the low T levels

This was the typed note atop the numbers

"your testoterone is low. interesting, come on in so we can talk. We will get things taken care of...no worry"

His typo on testosterone not mine.

I've got Vitamin D capsules sitting in my supplement cabinet but it's something that wasn't included in my diet plan from Shelby so I didn't use it since I'm OCD like that. I owe him an update and will run that by him, I'm sure we could sacrifice a few fat calories to get that back in there.

Noted about the other things to look into, I'm going to delay trying to repair it on my own before consulting with a Dr.(turns out I was seen by a PA) and seeing what my options are. I'd hate to use OTC supps and get my levels back into a barely "normal" range and be denied treatment that I need.

If I am for some reason denied reasonable treatment for this ongoing issue that's an avenue I'll have to explore(maybe DAA once I see more feedback) .

Appreciate you coming in here. To be clear about my intentions I just want to feel better, to me HRT seems like the only sure way of doing it since this has been a several year thing and not just a brief spike.

 

[wasp]

crit range 40-54

 

[maldorf]

"your testoterone is low. interesting, come on in so we can talk. We will get things taken care of...no worry"
If I am for some reason denied reasonable treatment for this ongoing issue that's an avenue I'll have to explore(maybe DAA once I see more feedback) .

Appreciate you coming in here. To be clear about my intentions I just want to feel better, to me HRT seems like the only sure way of doing it since this has been a several year thing and not just a brief spike.

No way that you will be turned down by any doctor that cares about their patients. I had no troubles getting my TRT. Sounds like this doc will help you out, and thats a great thing. I would be a bit forward and let them know that you want to use injectable test and no cream. From what ive heard the cream doestn work as well, i could be wrong. I told my endo that and she had no problem prescribing me the injectable and pins to go with it. Insurance wil pay most of it for you too and you can start feeling good again. Research also shows that having low test like that isnt healthy and can lead to health problems. Seen several studies that show it increases chances of heart troubles, believe it or not.

Let us know how the appointment goes.

 

[ScottMcD1]

crit range 40-54

That's what it says on my sheet, is that abnormal?

My number was smack dab in the middle and certainly below what I've seen guys on supraphysiological levels of test pust up here so I'm hoping I'm OK there lol.

No way that you will be turned down by any doctor that cares about their patients. I had no troubles getting my TRT. Sounds like this doc will help you out, and thats a great thing. I would be a bit forward and let them know that you want to use injectable test and no cream. From what ive heard the cream doestn work as well, i could be wrong. I told my endo that and she had no problem prescribing me the injectable and pins to go with it. Insurance wil pay most of it for you too and you can start feeling good again. Research also shows that having low test like that isnt healthy and can lead to health problems. Seen several studies that show it increases chances of heart troubles, believe it or not.

Let us know how the appointment goes.

Thanks Maldorf, I've done my fair share of research into proper HRT protocols since this has been an ongoing issues and many seem to share the opinion on injections being superior to gels for the most part.

I also somewhat worry about future fertility going on HRT(likely) at this stage in my life and wonder if hCG and or an anti-E if those problems arise are within the realm of most doctors to consider. I don't want to get too ahead of myself here and worry about optimization of treatment before I'm assured I'll get reasonable treatment.

An old friend of mine was recently put on HRT due to pain killer abuse and when he told me his protocol he gets 200 mg test cyp every 3 weeks, not exactly the roller coaster ride I'm looking for. He feels great for about 5 days after each inject and then progressively worse and worse, oddly enough

 

[taslajrisi]

mine was 82 and that was after aggressive pct. the doc wrote a script on the spot for cyp 100mg/wk. (im 42) you could try long term hcg/clom/nolva to get things back but for me, 1/2cc of cyp a week was cheap and easy and effective.

 

[taslajrisi]

question on triglicerides

my trig were very low......i assume this is a good thing. all the talk on the web is about HDL and mine was just OK 40 but my total was less than 200 and trig was like 35....is this necessarily good?
i mean, can you get away with a lower HDL if your LDL and triglicerides are low too?

 

[ScottMcD1]

And further about the red meat intake...

I just had a long stretch of low days in a row(4 regularly weekly)and am nearing the end of my diet so I was using fattier protein sources with my non carb meals to keep sane/satiated more so than I had been previously.

When we begin the lean mass phase I'll be likely doing 1-2 red meat meals 3x a week. I've been trying to incorporate more seafood in it's place as is since I can get fresh caught stuff for free semi regularly.

 

[ScottMcD1]

Quoting myself for narcissism lol

Also I have decided I am most likely going to be experimenting with some legal PHs(orals obviously) in the upcoming "offseason" and want to be able to compare and contrast before/after blood work to be sure I am staying healthy and recovering properly.

Clearly this didn't come out well, any legal PHs I was going to be using say 2 weeks from now are being delayed or canceled till normal hormone levels can be established either via exo test/SERMs or OTC supplements if that's my only realistic option.