Problem with clients cycles.....speaking for trainers

PHIL HERNON · Mar 8, 2010

A lot of trainees ( from other countries where this is legal)say that they want to take massive amounts of steroids. What they do not understand is that sometimes larger dosages of test may reduce free test levels......lower dosages of test may raise free test levels.[/B].........lower levels of test may RAISE IGF-1 levels....it all depends upon what dosages thay are at.......and what response they are getting from their dosages now........find out how you respond before bombing yourself with test.......there is a RIGHT WAY or BETTER Way............especially if you want long term positive resluts. Believe me when I say that as your trainer, we KNOW you want to be huge......there is a method to our madness.

Johnny Smiles · Mar 8, 2010

listen to trainer or hire someone else....

soooooo many people do things the hard way or the wrong way and its a shame. things are actually VERY easy.
and to those guys that are experiecned competitiors, at worst listening and NOT questioning everything might get you to think outside the box. it worked for me a time or two. its all about sharing and trying new info. -JS

pesty4077 · Mar 8, 2010

I always believe more isn't necessary better. When I see guys taking over 1000mg of AAS thier 2nd cycle, I shake my head. Maybe if we got are priorities right and started with the diet and training first, we would progress better with the AAS. Just a thought.

BigChef · Mar 8, 2010

I would always go on the low dosage just to be safe. You might better gains on a low dosage than a large dosage. Best to experiment on low dosage and listen to you body. Taking large dosage is like playing with fire and not worth the risk. Live longer and play it safe - Your health is important.

Swifto · Mar 8, 2010

PHIL HERNON said:
A lot of trainees ( from other countries where this is legal)say that they want to take massive amounts of steroids. What they do not understand is that sometimes larger dosages of test may reduce free test levels......lower dosages of test may raise free test levels.[/B].........lower levels of test may RAISE IGF-1 levels....it all depends upon what dosages thay are at.......and what response they are getting from their dosages now........find out how you respond before bombing yourself with test.......there is a RIGHT WAY or BETTER Way............especially if you want long term positive resluts. Believe me when I say that as your trainer, we KNOW you want to be huge......there is a method to our madness.

Larger doses of exogenous testosterone will reduce SHBG, increasing free testosterone Phil.

From the clinical data I have seen on exogenous testoterone given to healthy males, lower doses of exo. testosetrone cause IGF levels to decline and larger doses for IGF to increase.

I dont quite follow Phil?

mature muscle · Mar 8, 2010

I have sad this over and over for myself i grow as well on 250 a wk then at500awk a have seen little differents on higher dosages. other then feeling worse.

ryjenn · Mar 8, 2010

i am glad i hired phil,i am learning alot about myself while still thinking on my own while following his guidance..
lowering the test for me ,mentally and phsically was the thing to do.
my results werent great on a higher dose and the sides were...
but thats me,cant speak for everyone.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 8, 2010

Hi

Swifto said:
Larger doses of exogenous testosterone will reduce SHBG, increasing free testosterone Phil.

From the clinical data I have seen on exogenous testoterone given to healthy males, lower doses of exo. testosetrone cause IGF levels to decline and larger doses for IGF to increase.

I dont quite follow Phil?

I see why you would say that, but read this link closely, it wil explain........it is tricky and dose dependant.........odd huh??
PM me your email address and I will send you a link from........ Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

Swifto · Mar 8, 2010

PHIL HERNON said:
I see why you would say that, but read this link closely, it wil explain........it is tricky and dose dependant.........odd huh??
PM me your email address and I will send you a link from........ Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

I got the link in your PM, thanks.

Thats the exact study I was about to reference.

Free T and IGF went up most in the 300mg and 600mg/wk groups. SHBG also went down the most in the 600mg/wk group.

Thats contradictory to your above claims. You've lost me big fella.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 8, 2010

Ok

Swifto said:
I got the link in your PM, thanks.

Thats the exact study I was about to reference.

Free T and IGF went up most in the 300mg and 600mg/wk groups. SHBG also went down the most in the 600mg/wk group.

Thats contradictory to your above claims. You've lost me big fella.

I sent it and explained it the best I could to you.........look closely at the lower dosages.........the difference is insignificant in the 300 mg test weekly group and the 600 mg test weekly group as far as IGF-1 is concerned. Nothing is exponential here, so adding more test is not necessarily benefitting you in reference to what amount you are using now.........choose dosages carefully.

Swifto · Mar 8, 2010

PHIL HERNON said:
I sent it and explained it the best I could to you.........look closely at the lower dosages.........the difference is insignificant in the 300 mg test weekly group and the 600 mg test weekly group as far as IGF-1 is concerned. Nothing is exponential here, so adding more test is not necessarily benefitting you in reference to what amount you are using now.........choose dosages carefully.

IGF, perhaps not.

But SHBG fell considerably and Free T rose considerably.

Gains in LBM arnt only mediated through IGF.

Anyway...Shall we move on?

I completely agree that large doses arnt always needed. I'm on 350mg/wk Test Prop (100mg/EOD) and Dbol 15mg/ED have been for nearly 3 months now. I'm a believer in lower doses.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 8, 2010

Well

It is like reading the bible.........people will read what they want from it

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

mr. boom · Mar 8, 2010

This happened to me. 1200mg/week and didn't grow and sex drive was way down.. I was like wtf is going on but finally figured out most of it was bound up.... Made better gains on lower dose but I know there is a way to keep more free test by using things and taking it with a science..

ds44 · Mar 8, 2010

Now this is a great thread alot information and great opinions....It sure beats that thread about LBA's all that silly banter...LOL

Bolan · Mar 8, 2010

ds44 said:
Now this is a great thread alot information and great opinions....It sure beats that thread about LBA's all that silly banter...LOL

I would not knock LBA's until you try them......I will be making a purchace soon and will post feedback.

Bolan · Mar 8, 2010

PHIL HERNON said:
A lot of trainees ( from other countries where this is legal)say that they want to take massive amounts of steroids. What they do not understand is that sometimes larger dosages of test may reduce free test levels......lower dosages of test may raise free test levels.[/B].........lower levels of test may RAISE IGF-1 levels....it all depends upon what dosages thay are at.......and what response they are getting from their dosages now........find out how you respond before bombing yourself with test.......there is a RIGHT WAY or BETTER Way............especially if you want long term positive resluts. Believe me when I say that as your trainer, we KNOW you want to be huge......there is a method to our madness.

But what about seasoned users...18+ yrs? AAS becomes like any drug to see results. Im saying , you grow a tolerence. Correct me if Im wrong?

ds44 · Mar 8, 2010

let me say this (opening my mouth and inserting foot)In no way did i mean to knock LBA's none at all.... i just meant the whole thread about LBA's kinda got out of control. And this thread had some good educational references...

i 'm a firm believer in trying something for myself if i like it i buy more if not i shop somewhere else......