Question about Aromatase-Inhibitors

[rippedboy]

Arimidex didn't exist in the World Anabolic Review of 1996. The pros always walked the stages ripped to the bone. They were using proviron/nolvadex before that time too. My question here, is if Arimidex is inhibiting aromatazation from test (or even endogenous androgens), wouldn't this mean it inhibits conversion from test to DHT? i would think that explains the decrease in libido some people get when they add it to their cycles. I think it is true because last cycle and before, I didn't lose any hair. I think DHT is important but if Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor and it is inhibiting conversion from androgens to estrogens, then it is also doing the same from androgens to DHT. Wouldn't this mean your gains are limited when you use it. What about using 20mg nolvadex and 50mg proviron daily? How did the bodybuilders cycle it years ago when come contest time? I'm asking because wylde helped me alot with my diet and cycle planning as well, and arimidex wasnt there so i started to ponder..for a long time.

 

[MikeS]

Test can take 2 pathways in its degrading. One would be performed by the enzyme aromatase in converting the test to estrogen. The other option is by enzyme 5AlphaReductase in the conversion to DHT. By blocking the action of the aromatase in using arimidex, you actually increase the amount of test being converted to DHT because it cannot go the estrogen pathway.

 

[rippedboy]

Test can take 2 pathways in its degrading. One would be performed by the enzyme aromatase in converting the test to estrogen. The other option is by enzyme 5AlphaReductase in the conversion to DHT. By blocking the action of the aromatase in using arimidex, you actually increase the amount of test being converted to DHT because it cannot go the estrogen pathway.

So when test aromatizes, it has nothing to do with DHT, but estrogen only? for a couple years, i was thinking if arimidex is used, there is no conversion whatsoever. i didnt lose any hair or maybe i dont lose much i guess when i take gear, which i rarely do anyway. should i use some nizoral shampoo 2% with minoxidil and go for the proviron/nolvadex combo? i cant afford arimidex. and they didnt have this in the 80's. what did people use against the estrogen? was it always proviron/nolvadex? wylde didnt add the arimidex in my cycle i think because i am not using much test to aromatize..100mg prop eod was the only drug to aromatize in the stack..its for dieting.

 

[MikeS]

With 100mg EOD you could use clomid or nolvadex.
Remember Proviron will make you lose hair if you are prone.

 

[Dave_19]

I would bump up your provirion to 100mg or atleast 75 ED< im goign to run 100mg for 10 days 150 for 5, post cycle.

btw how do u guys compare leterozole to A-dex I have both really dont know how to incorparate both into my current cycle for optimal results.

 

[rippedboy]

With 100mg EOD you could use clomid or nolvadex.
Remember Proviron will make you lose hair if you are prone.

thats true, i totally forgot it is an androgen! i didnt lose any hair, i am prone, it is thinning, i am only 20, i want to use something to stop it.

 

[Tadger]

Proviron doesn't function as an effective aromatase inhibitor. In fact, it's affinity for the aromatase is utterly dismal. It has no affinity at the ER, and doesn't function as an anti-estrogen at all.

Proviron may actually make the problems with DHT worse. It simply binds to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG usually binds up a good portion of the test in your system at any given time... what anywhere from 80-90someodd percent? I can't recall. Anyway... SHBG will allow serum test levels to raise much higher than they would naturally... which means more bang for your buck, but may also increase conversion rate (test to DHT).

 

[rippedboy]

Proviron doesn't function as an effective aromatase inhibitor. In fact, it's affinity for the aromatase is utterly dismal. It has no affinity at the ER, and doesn't function as an anti-estrogen at all.

Proviron may actually make the problems with DHT worse. It simply binds to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG usually binds up a good portion of the test in your system at any given time... what anywhere from 80-90someodd percent? I can't recall. Anyway... SHBG will allow serum test levels to raise much higher than they would naturally... which means more bang for your buck, but may also increase conversion rate (test to DHT).

Well!! I guess I never payed attention to that, although I knew all this information from research. i had just always thought that the arimidex was stopping conversion from testosterone to DHT so I had dismissed all this. Anyway, I am about ready to start..100mg test prop EOD, 75mg fina EOD, and 50mg winstrol zambon EOD, 50mcg T3 ED, maybe clen at 100mcg ED, and dbol at 20mg ED, but i will have to add in some nolvadex probably at 20mg ED. i shouldnt hold water with this cycle, right?

Also, how come proviron doesnt function at all as an aromatase-inhibitor or even an anti-estrogen? why does it say so in the profiles? do you think that because it allows more test to be free in the blood and convert to DHT, then less would be converted to estrogen and they came up with this theory? any input appreciated.

thank you for those who participated in this thread. it has helped me alot.

 

[MikeS]

Already it was said that Proviron had little or no affinity for the ER.
That why it doesnt work as a blocker, and I guess it doesnt effect
the aromatase enzyme either.

Because there is more test in the blood doesnt mean it wont convert to estrogen, unless an effective anti estro is prosent.
So there is no more than normal convewrsion to DHT in comparison to estro for the extra 'free' test.

 

[rippedboy]

Already it was said that Proviron had little or no affinity for the ER.
That why it doesnt work as a blocker, and I guess it doesnt effect
the aromatase enzyme either.

Because there is more test in the blood doesnt mean it wont convert to estrogen, unless an effective anti estro is prosent.
So there is no more than normal convewrsion to DHT in comparison to estro for the extra 'free' test.

MikeS-

Let's say I run a cycle like this next:

100mg test prop EOD
75mg fina EOD
50mg winstrol depot EOD
50mg proviron ED
50mcg T3 ED
100mcg clen ED

this was suggested from the guru. he didn't include nolvadex or arimidex. also, he included 4iu GH per day but i'm not going to use GH ever so i skipped that.

i wanted to add in dbol at 30mg ED but if i do so, i will have to add nolvadex to the cycle. he didnt have dbol in there but will i have better results if i add it in? im going to finally do the diet and cardio, and this cycle, and post my progress when i begin. i should start within 2 weeks.

thanks.

 

[BigBoyJ]

Just curious, MikeS. What was it that made you decide to never use gh? I will never use it either (not that I could afford it anyway). To be honest the stuff just scares me. Anything that causes the internal organs to grow at the same rate as muscle tissue can't be right.

 

[rippedboy]

Just curious, MikeS. What was it that made you decide to never use gh? I will never use it either (not that I could afford it anyway). To be honest the stuff just scares me. Anything that causes the internal organs to grow at the same rate as muscle tissue can't be right.

I don't think he mentioned it. I did. Basically, it kills all i am after. It puts water in the face, increases bones like jaw and forehead, gh gut, its ugly. the whole point is to have a lean face and look like the bodybuilders in the 80's with good muscle and be ripped with a small beautiful waist and nice V-taper. it looks more dense and ripped that way.

 

[MikeS]

BBJ you misunderstood-that was RB saying that.
I do use gh. It really wont have all those terrible effects used in normal doseing (4-6iu ED). Its great for cutting too.

Id use the dbol 1st 4-5wks. Use the winny the next 4-5wks.
The only reason to add proviron IMO is because of the SHBG uptake. Otherwise its too expensive for what it does (not much).