Raising IGF levels

[Mike Arnold]

Do you guys remember the old B.S. info being circulated back in the day, in which we were told that DAC was a horrible choice for men because it lacked the "pulse"?

The theory was that DAC was less effective for growth than a ModGRF1-29 + GHRP combo specifically because it lacked this "pulse", which was supposedly very important for being able to take advantage of GH's growth promoting effects. There was an entire scientific explanation attached to this recommendation...and almost everyone believed it. In fact, pretty much everyone who used GH peptides around this time period avoided using DAC for this very reason.

This just goes to show how important "REAL-WORLD" experience is when it comes to bodybuilding drugs. Of course, I am not undermining the value of science/medicine--not at all, as it plays an essential role--but there have been way too many times where these purely science/medicine-minded people have been wrong and led many astray with faulty recommendations.

I remember several of us disputing the validity of the above recommendation. It made absolutely no sense to me because 1,000's of real-world experiences had already proven that this pulse doesn't mean jack-shit when looking at the bigger picture. For many years it was standard practice to inject exo. GH 2X/day. With this dosing pattern GH levels remained elevated and fairly stable all day long, eliminating any sort of pulse, yet many bodybuilders claimed to experience their best-ever results in terms of both fat-loss and growth with this method of administration.

Regardless of whether exo. GH was injected once, twice, or three times daily, bodybuilders learned very quickly that the most important factors in determining effectiveness were overall dosage and duration of use. The bottom line is that the more GH we use and the longer we use it for, the better our results will be, regardless of dosing patterns.

Even with this knowledge widely available, many bodybuilders were somehow duped into believing that the constantly elevated GH levels provided by DAC were somehow going to "diminish" our results.

The majority believed they would get better results by using GHRP-2 and ModGRF-129 @ 100 mcg each, 3X/day....then they would using ANY dose of DAC with a somatostatin inhibitor. Because of this, the large majority used the GHRP-2 & mod protocol, but it didn't take long to realize that this program couldn't provide the results of even moderate exo. GH use, let alone high dose use.

Dissatisfaction set in and bodybuilders began looking for other, more effective ways to use GH peptides. It took many years to undo the "damage" that those previous recommendations did to the belief system of the bodybuilding community, until we finally ended up back at square one--DAC!

Now, at this now point I still do believe that short-acting GH peptides are still feasible options, but not when used in the traditional fashion. DAC, along with a somatostatin inhibitor, is far more effective than traditional GH peptide programs.

 

[Knight9]

Do you guys remember the old B.S. info being circulated back in the day, in which we were told that DAC was a horrible choice for men because it lacked the "pulse"?

The theory was that DAC was less effective for growth than a ModGRF1-29 + GHRP combo specifically because it lacked this "pulse", which was supposedly very important for being able to take advantage of GH's growth promoting effects. There was an entire scientific explanation attached to this recommendation...and almost everyone believed it. In fact, pretty much everyone who used GH peptides around this time period avoided using DAC for this very reason.

This just goes to show how important "REAL-WORLD" experience is when it comes to bodybuilding drugs. Of course, I am not undermining the value of science/medicine--not at all, as it plays an essential role--but there have been way too many times where these purely science/medicine-minded people have been wrong and led many astray with faulty recommendations.

I remember several of us disputing the validity of the above recommendation. It made absolutely no sense to me because 1,000's of real-world experiences had already proven that this pulse doesn't mean jack-shit when looking at the bigger picture. For many years it was standard practice to inject exo. GH 2X/day. With this dosing pattern GH levels remained elevated and fairly stable all day long, eliminating any sort of pulse, yet many bodybuilders claimed to experience their best-ever results in terms of both fat-loss and growth with this method of administration.

Regardless of whether exo. GH was injected once, twice, or three times daily, bodybuilders learned very quickly that the most important factors in determining effectiveness were overall dosage and duration of use. The bottom line is that the more GH we use and the longer we use it for, the better our results will be, regardless of dosing patterns.

Even with this knowledge widely available, many bodybuilders were somehow duped into believing that the constantly elevated GH levels provided by DAC were somehow going to "diminish" our results.

The majority believed they would get better results by using GHRP-2 and ModGRF-129 @ 100 mcg each, 3X/day....then they would using ANY dose of DAC with a somatostatin inhibitor. Because of this, the large majority used the GHRP-2 & mod protocol, but it didn't take long to realize that this program couldn't provide the results of even moderate exo. GH use, let alone high dose use.

Dissatisfaction set in and bodybuilders began looking for other, more effective ways to use GH peptides. It took many years to undo the "damage" that those previous recommendations did to the belief system of the bodybuilding community, until we finally ended up back at square one--DAC!

Now, at this now point I still do believe that short-acting GH peptides are still feasible options, but not when used in the traditional fashion. DAC, along with a somatostatin inhibitor, is far more effective than traditional GH peptide programs.

YEP, GH bleed was the sure outcome and that was thought to be the devil!

 

[Mike Arnold]

YEP, GH bleed was the sure outcome and that was thought to be the devil!

Yes, the dreaded "GH bleed". Never mind the fact that exo. GH, when used even twice daily, causes perpetual GH bleed--it was the enemy and would kill our gains. LOL. Pure bullshit that all exo. GH users knew from day #1.

It looks like its time for many websites to begin deleting certain well known articles from their sticky section.

 

[richiec]

So here's my question:

Is it more beneficial to run a CJC no DAC + GHRP along side exo GH or just run CJC DAC + GHRP?

Layman's terms please

 

[jamescb77]

I'm going to try a dac and mk677 with a gh/slin blast a few times a week. I have some good info that a top level pro has been doing this and I'm gonna see what actually happens. Should kick it off within a month or so

 

[cauthen96]

Just my .02

Test was king for decades and when tren first hit the scene some of the old school/vets etc were like wtf ever I been using test for 20 years blah blah blah test is king.. now we look back and laugh at those conversations..

So maybe in 2025 we can look back and laugh at this??

GH bleed lol..

 

[ALLEX]

How's nail and hair growth on these different methods?

 

[nfernoo]

I'm going to try a dac and mk677 with a gh/slin blast a few times a week. I have some good info that a top level pro has been doing this and I'm gonna see what actually happens. Should kick it off within a month or so

Whats his protocol for the peps?

I keep being told not to use gh pros with gh.
I got better results from cjc dac and hex in two weeks
than I did with a "top generic" gh at 5iu 5x week (4 weeks) and 10iu everyday (4 weeks)

I wonder the results of either.

8 iu a day pharm grade
or
4 iu a day pharm grade with cjc dac 10mg a week plus hex 100mg 3x daily.

Mike Arnold? What do u think?

I was gonna do 4 iu a day pharm with 10-15iu grey tops.
but was advised to do 8 iu pharm.

I just want igf to be super high.

I'm gonna do a serostim igf test after four weeks of 8 iu a day
regardless. See what we are looking at.

 

[jamescb77]

Sadly I don't have his exact protocol otherwise I would already be on it. I have some things in my head that I wanna try looking at it from a timing standpoint.

 

[richiec]

So here's my question:

Is it more beneficial to run a CJC no DAC + GHRP along side exo GH or just run CJC DAC + GHRP?

Layman's terms please

ANYONE???

 

[Kaladryn]

Yes, the dreaded "GH bleed". Never mind the fact that exo. GH, when used even twice daily, causes perpetual GH bleed--it was the enemy and would kill our gains. LOL. Pure bullshit that all exo. GH users knew from day #1.

It looks like its time for many websites to begin deleting certain well known articles from their sticky section.

Personally I found the 3x per week GH recommendations a similar stupidity. ED dosing is clearly superior in my experience.

Just my .02

Test was king for decades and when tren first hit the scene some of the old school/vets etc were like wtf ever I been using test for 20 years blah blah blah test is king.. now we look back and laugh at those conversations..

So maybe in 2025 we can look back and laugh at this??

GH bleed lol..

I was there when tren first hit the scene, I don't think anyone denied the power of tren, and I still think everyone agrees test is king. Here is an example:

1000mg tren per week, vs 1000mg of test per week, who will be bigger at the end of a 10 year cycle? The test user will still be growing after 10 years, the tren user would be dead.

You just can't hold onto muscle mass when dead, even if you have a friend injecting your corpse weekly with tren.

 

[johnjuanb1]

So IGF-lr3 does nothing to increase IGF levels?
Same with des or any other version?

Has anyone used it and tested?
Or is there research to show?

Dr. Alpha6164 tested serum Igf1 while using only igf1-Lr3. He got a score in the low 300's. He said this shouldn't have happened because igf1-Lr3 has 13 amino acids attached to the igf1 amino acid chain which should not show up on serum Igf1 because your bodies igf1 they test for contains 70 amino acids.
Igf1-des has 67 amino acids. The body actually has des naturally occurring because lactic acid naturally cleaves off the last 3 amino acids in the 70 amino acid igf1 chain at times.

Alpha couldn't explain why Igf1-Lr3 raised his igf1 score, but it in fact did raise it.

 

[johnjuanb1]

ANYONE???

I believe cjc no dac(mod grf(1-29)) with ghrp, followed by exogenous HGH 10 minutes later, when the pituitary released hgh pulse is rising, is optimum. Chase that with insulin once the synthetic hgh has cleared and you have one serious anabolic environment.

 

[Kaladryn]

Dr. Alpha6164 tested serum Igf1 while using only igf1-Lr3. He got a score in the low 300's. He said this shouldn't have happened because igf1-Lr3 has 13 amino acids attached to the igf1 amino acid chain which should not show up on serum Igf1 because your bodies igf1 they test for contains 70 amino acids.
Igf1-des has 67 amino acids. The body actually has des naturally occurring because lactic acid naturally cleaves off the last 3 amino acids in the 70 amino acid igf1 chain at times.

Alpha couldn't explain why Igf1-Lr3 raised his igf1 score, but it in fact did raise it.

I could attempt an explanation here. It would be very expensive to run a full GC/MS test on a blood sample, that would precisely identify the exact weight of the protein. It is more likely that they use a "short cut" method of testing, as they do with many other things, such as DHT, E2, Testosterone, etc.

Remember these tests are generally only as accurate as they need to be, being more precise than they need to be would be cost prohibitive. They aren't expecting to find Lr3 so there is no reason to make the test that accurate.

I know you probably know this, Alpha does too I'm sure, but it's good to let everyone know, a blood test is a long ways from a full analysis of what is in your blood, like a lot of people imagine.

 

[cauthen96]

I agree brother.. Im not arguing the test/tren thing just used that as an example of when something new hits the scene. There will always be a large group of people who are skeptical until there are 1000s of labs and logs. Its human nature..

Personally I found the 3x per week GH recommendations a similar stupidity. ED dosing is clearly superior in my experience.



I was there when tren first hit the scene, I don't think anyone denied the power of tren, and I still think everyone agrees test is king. Here is an example:

1000mg tren per week, vs 1000mg of test per week, who will be bigger at the end of a 10 year cycle? The test user will still be growing after 10 years, the tren user would be dead.

You just can't hold onto muscle mass when dead, even if you have a friend injecting your corpse weekly with tren.

 

[richiec]

I believe cjc no dac(mod grf(1-29)) with ghrp, followed by exogenous HGH 10 minutes later, when the pituitary released hgh pulse is rising, is optimum. Chase that with insulin once the synthetic hgh has cleared and you have one serious anabolic environment.

What dose would you say JJ, 100mcg each?

 

[phatkid77]

I believe cjc no dac(mod grf(1-29)) with ghrp, followed by exogenous HGH 10 minutes later, when the pituitary released hgh pulse is rising, is optimum. Chase that with insulin once the synthetic hgh has cleared and you have one serious anabolic environment.

My man. So next time I'm on. Your saying shoot peps. Then half hour later shoot slin then boom I gym. Always around 10am

And I think he says. Or others even bump the cjc no dac to 200/ea (that's what I wanna do)
I also want to run DAC at 5mg week. But in canada it's pricey ! $45/2mg. And I'm Leary of the good deals from progen or SP not clearing border


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phatkid77]

Whats his protocol for the peps?



I keep being told not to use gh pros with gh.

I got better results from cjc dac and hex in two weeks

than I did with a "top generic" gh at 5iu 5x week (4 weeks) and 10iu everyday (4 weeks)



I wonder the results of either.



8 iu a day pharm grade

or

4 iu a day pharm grade with cjc dac 10mg a week plus hex 100mg 3x daily.



Mike Arnold? What do u think?



I was gonna do 4 iu a day pharm with 10-15iu grey tops.

but was advised to do 8 iu pharm.



I just want igf to be super high.



I'm gonna do a serostim igf test after four weeks of 8 iu a day

regardless. See what we are looking at.

Serious?? If true. Intriguing and promising


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[l bone]

I've made orders up to Canada and they get through every time.

 

[johnjuanb1]

What dose would you say JJ, 100mcg each?

I think 100mcg each is perfect! That gets serum hgh up in the 20's which is plenty.