Raw Egg White Protein Bioavailability/absorption

[n3mo0101]

That doesn't make sense though, why would one study have raw egg whites with the same bio availability as pasteurized? The raw eggs were un-heated so trypsin must have still been active ?

and one says raw eggs have 50% bio-availability ?

I think the vivo digestion model is flawed, the other study used real humans

That's why its important to read these studies they have on PubMed because one study that is put out may not agree with another one.

The in vitro experiment could have been different because it wasn't in a human body. However, the fact that trypsin denatures at such a low temperature leabes me optimistic that the pasteurized whites are highly digestible. I havent foudn any other experiments, but havent look either

 

[thewizkid]

That's why its important to read these studies they have on PubMed because one study that is put out may not agree with another one.

The in vitro experiment could have been different because it wasn't in a human body. However, the fact that trypsin denatures at such a low temperature leabes me optimistic that the pasteurized whites are highly digestible. I havent foudn any other experiments, but havent look either

where does it say trypsin is the cause of low bio-availability in raw egg whites?
(sorry I must have missed it)
I just re-read it and I am seeing that the low bio-availability MAY be caused by trypsin inhibiters (not trypsin)
Or did you mean that trypsin inhibiters denatures at a low temperature?

also some information I found
Found this quoted from a couple sites/forums. Haven't really had time to look into it, will update when I get time to read a bit more or find any other info

According to Egg Science & Technology, edited by Drs. William J. Stadelman & Owen J. Cotterill, Fourth Edition, 1995, “The avidin-biotin complex is resistant to denaturation and proteolysis. Avidin was irreversibly denatured at temperatures higher than 158F (70C) but the complex was stable to 212F (100C).”

Further:

"Plain egg whites (without added ingredients) are pasteurized at a temperature of 134F (56.7C) for 3.5 minutes OR at a temperature of 132F (55.6C) for 6.2 minutes."

and

"Coagulation of egg white begins at temperature of 144F."


Translation: Pasteurization does not denature avidin, despite false sales claims.

Also here is a quote from a liquid egg white company. Actually it's quite funny the FAQ page has that question with a 'bodybuilder' asking

**broken link removed**

Do AllWhites need to be cooked to neutralize the Avidin protein that depletes Biotin? I'm a body builder and need to know.

Yes, AllWhites must be fully cooked in order for the Biotin present in egg whites to be available for absorption. In its natural raw state, Avidin, a protein found in egg whites, binds with Biotin (a B-vitamin). When bound to Avidin, our bodies are unable to absorb Biotin from the egg white. The heat treatment or pasteurization temperature of the AllWhites is not high enough to denature the Avidin protein, therefore the Biotin remains bound.

 

[chicken]

That's why its important to read these studies they have on PubMed because one study that is put out may not agree with another one.

The in vitro experiment could have been different because it wasn't in a human body. However, the fact that trypsin denatures at such a low temperature leabes me optimistic that the pasteurized whites are highly digestible. I havent foudn any other experiments, but havent look either

N3mo101, I Tryed 2 tell u. Just read the wiz kids last post agan. All ur studys and all u had 2 do was go to the questions page of a Pasturized egg white company, and BAM! there is ur answer. OR U COULD GO TO THE COMPANY'S THAT PRODUCE DENATURED EGG WHITES AND THEY EXPLANATION THE SAME THING! (Like i said 2 days ago)or u can belive what ever u want, lots of people do it! Even people with a colligen eggucation lik u got. Lmafo!

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[brucepancake]

So what is the verdict. Can I continue to eat my Cosco egg whites? Or is it a waste of money? Its the only reason I have a membership there.

 

[bieberhole69]

So what is the verdict. Can I continue to eat my Cosco egg whites? Or is it a waste of money? Its the only reason I have a membership there.

I've been drinking liquid egg whites--easily 1/3 to 1/2 my daily total--for 6ish years now and still making gains, still dieting and coming in shredded as hell with minimal muscle loss. I'm at my biggest and leanest ever and consuming the most liquid egg whites ever, as well as getting a huge chunk of my other protein requirements in with whey isolate (I'm a student...it works good for me).

Bioavailability probably doesn't matter as much as some would leave you to believe. Don't overthink it. If it's working currently, I see no need to change things.

 

[musclemoose]

Who care just eat it, drink it, whatever. Just get it down the hatch and grow grow grow.

 

[thewizkid]

I've been drinking liquid egg whites--easily 1/3 to 1/2 my daily total--for 6ish years now and still making gains, still dieting and coming in shredded as hell with minimal muscle loss. I'm at my biggest and leanest ever and consuming the most liquid egg whites ever, as well as getting a huge chunk of my other protein requirements in with whey isolate (I'm a student...it works good for me).

Bioavailability probably doesn't matter as much as some would leave you to believe. Don't overthink it. If it's working currently, I see no need to change things.

I mean if you're busting your ass in the gym, eating a diet, putting needles in your ass, some buying HGH and spending a ton of money doing it. You'd probably want to optimize something like that and not ignore it. Diet is key, more so than training and drugs in my opinion so if it's an actual issue it should be addressed.

Although there seems to be no clear evidence on if pasteurized egg whites are less bioavailable than cooked egg whites.

Just wondering when you said you're consuming liquid egg whites do you mean without cooking or cooking?

What if you could have been even bigger and leaner had you cooked the egg whites? Even if it was just 10% more lean muscle tissue with the same bf?

 

[bieberhole69]

I mean if you're busting your ass in the gym, eating a diet, putting needles in your ass, some buying HGH and spending a ton of money doing it. You'd probably want to optimize something like that and not ignore it. Diet is key, more so than training and drugs in my opinion so if it's an actual issue it should be addressed.

Although there seems to be no clear evidence on if pasteurized egg whites are less bioavailable than cooked egg whites.

Just wondering when you said you're consuming liquid egg whites do you mean without cooking or cooking?

What if you could have been even bigger and leaner had you cooked the egg whites? Even if it was just 10% more lean muscle tissue with the same bf?

Warning: long post ahead. Hear me out. Incorporating all the factors that led to me staying with this decision, as well as other things I think are somewhat pertinent.

I drink them. No cooking. I have experimented with whole food for awhile v.s. this...no appreciable difference in gains (for me).

If it matters (since you mentioned needles in the ass), my doses are lower now than years ago (my total on recent diet peaked at 1400mg). I'm also consuming less protein (only 300g, vs 350-400g in past, with most of it in the past coming from whole foods and maybe 100g a day from the egg whites / protein powders) than at least up until 5-7 years ago.

I don't believe I could be bigger and leaner--not simply from switching my egg whites from drinking to cooked, at least. I've been nailing my diet for years now. Last time I competed in 2014 I clocked in as a MW (176.0) sucking down from 181 the morning of weigh ins. I haven't competed since then, but finished this diet at 214lbs--with about (estimated on picture comparisons from same "leanness") with about 8-10 lbs to go for stage-ready (so compared to 181...that's 23-25lbs in 3 years).

Could I have put on 10% more? I'm not sure--but probably not. Nobody could really answer that question unless they've tried it for themselves. But 8lbs a year muscle gain is nothing to sneeze at, and I've been unable to afford GH for easily 1.5-2 of those years, most of my dosage coming from test during this timeframe (total doses going lower and lower each year too), haven't even been able to train more than 2-3x a week for at least 1/5 of each year. Suboptimal sleep that 1/5th of the year as well. Adjusting these things would make a hell of a lot more difference than adjusting whether or not I cook my egg whites, but I can't adjust them either at this point in my life so it doesn't matter.

BUT

I have been nailing my diet. Albeit with a lot of (drinking) liquid egg whites and whey isolate in the mix. And going balls to the walls with my training when I'm in the gym.

I mentioned ALL of that because you have to ask yourself...would 10% muscle gain be worth it? Another 2.5lbs (for me)? Not sure...the convenience factor for my CURRENT lifestyle greatly outweighs 2.5lbs of muscle.

Also, it's highly cost-effective. The liquid egg whites I get come out to roughly $0.61 per 25g of protein. Chicken breast is the only thing cheaper...and saves me $0.11 a pound. Chicken breast takes time to cook, energy to cook with, more time to eat...and I factor all this into the cost and figure it brings that $0.11 gap a lot closer. Anyways, it's up to the individual to determine whether or not it's worth it. I've also experimented with tons of non-traditional diet styles...i.e. eating wheat products, dairy products (mostly cheese and yogurt), etc while shredding. None of this mattered FOR ME.

Take-home message: Weigh the pros and cons of each for you and your lifestyle. Experiment and see if it makes a difference. It hasn't to me. Might to you. Only one way to find out...(the proof is in the pudding? LOL)

P.S.

Here's my most recent picture post so you don't think this is just some skinny guy trying to dish advice on the internet. I'm certainly not the biggest guy--but I have put on ~100lbs lean muscle tissue in almost 11 years with skinny guy genetics. You can find the pictures from 2014 contests if you search under my threads (lots of egg whites and whey isolate consumed then, too).

Again, I'm just offering my perspective on what's worked for me and why I chose to do it. Hope it helps.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...09228-pic-you-took-today-417.html#post2518371

 

[thewizkid]

Warning: long post ahead. Hear me out. Incorporating all the factors that led to me staying with this decision, as well as other things I think are somewhat pertinent.

I drink them. No cooking. I have experimented with whole food for awhile v.s. this...no appreciable difference in gains (for me).

If it matters (since you mentioned needles in the ass), my doses are lower now than years ago (my total on recent diet peaked at 1400mg). I'm also consuming less protein (only 300g, vs 350-400g in past, with most of it in the past coming from whole foods and maybe 100g a day from the egg whites / protein powders) than at least up until 5-7 years ago.

I don't believe I could be bigger and leaner--not simply from switching my egg whites from drinking to cooked, at least. I've been nailing my diet for years now. Last time I competed in 2014 I clocked in as a MW (176.0) sucking down from 181 the morning of weigh ins. I haven't competed since then, but finished this diet at 214lbs--with about (estimated on picture comparisons from same "leanness") with about 8-10 lbs to go for stage-ready (so compared to 181...that's 23-25lbs in 3 years).

Could I have put on 10% more? I'm not sure--but probably not. Nobody could really answer that question unless they've tried it for themselves. But 8lbs a year muscle gain is nothing to sneeze at, and I've been unable to afford GH for easily 1.5-2 of those years, most of my dosage coming from test during this timeframe (total doses going lower and lower each year too), haven't even been able to train more than 2-3x a week for at least 1/5 of each year. Suboptimal sleep that 1/5th of the year as well. Adjusting these things would make a hell of a lot more difference than adjusting whether or not I cook my egg whites, but I can't adjust them either at this point in my life so it doesn't matter.

BUT

I have been nailing my diet. Albeit with a lot of (drinking) liquid egg whites and whey isolate in the mix. And going balls to the walls with my training when I'm in the gym.

I mentioned ALL of that because you have to ask yourself...would 10% muscle gain be worth it? Another 2.5lbs (for me)? Not sure...the convenience factor for my CURRENT lifestyle greatly outweighs 2.5lbs of muscle.

Also, it's highly cost-effective. The liquid egg whites I get come out to roughly $0.61 per 25g of protein. Chicken breast is the only thing cheaper...and saves me $0.11 a pound. Chicken breast takes time to cook, energy to cook with, more time to eat...and I factor all this into the cost and figure it brings that $0.11 gap a lot closer. Anyways, it's up to the individual to determine whether or not it's worth it. I've also experimented with tons of non-traditional diet styles...i.e. eating wheat products, dairy products (mostly cheese and yogurt), etc while shredding. None of this mattered FOR ME.

Take-home message: Weigh the pros and cons of each for you and your lifestyle. Experiment and see if it makes a difference. It hasn't to me. Might to you. Only one way to find out...(the proof is in the pudding? LOL)

P.S.

Here's my most recent picture post so you don't think this is just some skinny guy trying to dish advice on the internet. I'm certainly not the biggest guy--but I have put on ~100lbs lean muscle tissue in almost 11 years with skinny guy genetics. You can find the pictures from 2014 contests if you search under my threads (lots of egg whites and whey isolate consumed then, too).

Again, I'm just offering my perspective on what's worked for me and why I chose to do it. Hope it helps.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...09228-pic-you-took-today-417.html#post2518371

I guess everyone has their own opinion, I am completely fine with that

If I had to give up 10% of muscle gain drinking egg whites vs cooking, that would suck. Being on a strict diet, sticking needles in my ass, spending countless hours training, reading, and although highly debated risking my health. To lose 10% because I didn't cook egg whites would be a big deal.

It doesn't cost much to cook egg whites, although time is a factor, it takes about 6 minutes. So when you train, eat, read, sleep, I can't see how it's a convience unless you're in a situation where you don't have access to a stove. Or microwave, which I just found out works. Wish I knew earlier , I wouldn't have even made the thread because the microwave is just one button. I had an issue with my stove so I was looking to see if I could just drink them.

I can respect someone offering their experience but science has a right and a wrong answer, much like if Ronnie Coleman said he did x amount of gear, ate x amount of food and train a certain way. Sure it might have worked for him and he won 8 Olympia's but it doesn't mean it was the right way and if replicated the same result will happen.

If you're consuming 50-60g of protein from egg whites per meal even if only 50% was absorbed I do believe you would get enough to activate protein synthesis but if someone was eating 35g of protein from egg whites thinking they would get 35g and only got 50% of that, 17g of protein is very minimal in a meal.
I assume you're consuming 50-60g of protein from egg whites in the meal?

 

[bieberhole69]

I actually add up my protein from all sources and consume 50g per meal so at most it's 35g from egg whites in one go. I.e. if I eat oats, the 5g per serving from that goes into the total of 50g. Cheese etc. If intake of these other protein sources goes up, the egg whites (or whey isolate) goes down.

I'm not worried about it.

 

[devenidas]

I actually add up my protein from all sources and consume 50g per meal so at most it's 35g from egg whites in one go. I.e. if I eat oats, the 5g per serving from that goes into the total of 50g. Cheese etc. If intake of these other protein sources goes up, the egg whites (or whey isolate) goes down.

I'm not worried about it.

5 gm protein from what oats ? is that what u saying

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[bieberhole69]

5 gm protein from what oats ? is that what u saying

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Let's say a "meal" looks like this:

1/2c oats or 1/2 bagel, both = 5g protein
2tbsp PB = 7g protein

that's 13g protein, add 35g protein from egg whites = 48g protein (close enough for my 50g, and i expect to be over / under a few meals throughout the day)

 

[devenidas]

Let's say a "meal" looks like this:

1/2c oats or 1/2 bagel, both = 5g protein
2tbsp PB = 7g protein

that's 13g protein, add 35g protein from egg whites = 48g protein (close enough for my 50g, and i expect to be over / under a few meals throughout the day)

you do NOT count protein from oats mate. i was saying to somebody else too recently. that's a incomplete amino acid profile.

you don't count protein from rice, potatoes, bread, bagel even though they say on the label it has protein.

ONLY complete sources.

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[bieberhole69]

you do NOT count protein from oats mate. i was saying to somebody else too recently. that's a incomplete amino acid profile.

you don't count protein from rice, potatoes, bread, bagel even though they say on the label it has protein.

ONLY complete sources.

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It's complete if you're taking in other aminos at the same time.

The same thing as a vegetarian eating beans + rice to make a complete amino profile.

 

[devenidas]

It's complete if you're taking in other aminos at the same time.

The same thing as a vegetarian eating beans + rice to make a complete amino profile.

I m not going to have this argument again. beans & rice together does not have complete amino acid profile. dairy sources (cheese) does. so if you add cheese to this mix then yes it will be complete.

anyway that's how aceto does it
so does chad
so does paulmbo
so does milos
so does Jordan peters

you count those calories from the protein listed on the label such as bread, bagels, oats cos its not calorie free but you dont count it towards your daily protein quota.
etc etc




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[bieberhole69]

I m not going to have this argument again. beans & rice together does not have complete amino acid profile. dairy sources (cheese) does. so if you add cheese to this mix then yes it will be complete.

anyway that's how aceto does it
so does chad
so does paulmbo
so does milos
so does Jordan peters

you count those calories from the protein listed on the label such as bread, bagels, oats cos its not calorie free but you dont count it towards your daily protein quota.
etc etc




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Why would you not add them? Alone they do not have a good amino acid profile, but it's not like your body is just going to ignore / not use the aminos present (especially when combining protein sources).

I guess between not being able to count these and drinking my pasteurized egg whites I should be thankful that I'm holding any mass at all now, much less gaining muscle consistently for years.

 

[devenidas]

Why would you not add them? Alone they do not have a good amino acid profile, but it's not like your body is just going to ignore / not use the aminos present (especially when combining protein sources).

I guess between not being able to count these and drinking my pasteurized egg whites I should be thankful that I'm holding any mass at all now, much less gaining muscle consistently for years.

I am done mate.

great it's working for you. if you think its delivering the results u are after well keep doing what's working for you is all i can say.

all the best.

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[OutToLunch]

I m not going to have this argument again. beans & rice together does not have complete amino acid profile. dairy sources (cheese) does. so if you add cheese to this mix then yes it will be complete.

anyway that's how aceto does it
so does chad
so does paulmbo
so does milos
so does Jordan peters

you count those calories from the protein listed on the label such as bread, bagels, oats cos its not calorie free but you dont count it towards your daily protein quota.
etc etc




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You forgot Dante DC

 

[devenidas]

You forgot Dante DC

OTL my spartan warrior elite [emoji1]

adding DC to the mix for validation purposes still wouldn't change a thing for some people. they still going to sit and count their proteins from bagels , rice, oats.

oh look what i just found out my rice has 7.9 gm of protein per 100 gms. i eat 200 plus on a good day that's like 16 gms of protein i never take into account! fuck me pal.

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[MR. BMJ]

I count mine.