RIP Matt Duvall just 40 years old

[BOOMSHAKER]

Please explain to me what abuse is.

Even if you can define it for yourself, which will be a majorly subjective definition, there will be no concensus.

One man's abuse is another man's HRT.

One of my major pet-peeves on these forums.

Sure, be happy to help on the defenition of abuse, "Andreas Munzer, Mohamed Benaziza" although Momo dies from severe dehydration while on stage, his cycles were up there with Andreas............ there is no disagreeing that these two died from "ABUSE". Most of us would never do what these two guys did. That's a given. But when you take it to the extreme like these two guys did then it's nothing more than ABUSE. Meaning doing way more then neccessary.

But again, the defenition of abuse is always up for interpretation. Thats all. carrry on.

 

[desibaba]

Sure, be happy to help on the defenition of abuse, "Andreas Munzer, Mohamed Benaziza" although Momo dies from severe dehydration while on stage, his cycles were up there with Andreas............ there is no disagreeing that these two died from "ABUSE". Most of us would never do what these two guys did. That's a given. But when you take it to the extreme like these two guys did then it's nothing more than ABUSE. Meaning doing way more then neccessary.

But again, the defenition of abuse is always up for interpretation. Thats all. carrry on.

Okay would you consider cycles like the ones that JohnJuan Or BBoy do Abuse????

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

Okay would you consider cycles like the ones that JohnJuan Or BBoy do Abuse????

You're going down an avenue that doesn't have to be gone down. and i'm out this discussion.

 

[KillerStack]

You're going down an avenue that doesn't have to be gone down. I personally could care less what name you throw on here. My point is, "abuse" by defenition is 1. To use wrongly or improperly..... 2. Improper use or handling; misuse.............


to me this is a dead subject. use what you want, and as much as you want. I am no ones dad on here. nor am i the know it all. I was just putting in my .02 and nothing more.

I support anyone doing whatever they want as well.

It's just that the term "abuse" is impossible to define and be agreed upon.

How do you "wrongly" or "improperly" use steroids? Ask a mainstream doc and we're all abusers. Certainly any doc will say buying drugs off the black market is crazy and certainly abuse. Even many bodybuilders agree... Dorian recently said that you have no idea what you're getting, which we all know.
We are all taking risks and gambling with our health.

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

I support anyone doing whatever they want as well.

It's just that the term "abuse" is impossible to define and be agreed upon.

How do you "wrongly" or "improperly" use steroids? Ask a mainstream doc and we're all abusers. Certainly any doc will say buying drugs off the black market is crazy and certainly abuse. Even many bodybuilders agree... Dorian recently said that you have no idea what you're getting, which we all know.
We are all taking risks and gambling with our health.

Correct, thank you for clarifying this up. that was my point.

 

[MaineGuy]

Lets just get over ourselves, we are all abusing AAS. It is the level of abuse we can argue about. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Miss Q]

Question- Never cycling off, is that considered abuse to anyone? Just curious...
Wait, we don't really know how to determine what the word abuse means?!? Let me re-phrase - Is never cycling off a considered unhealthy??

 

[raw33man]

I don't think it's nice to talk about drugs and drugs abuse in a thread that's about death of a bodybuilder

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I understand what you're saying, but the key word here is "ABUSE"..... also, most of the bodybuilders that have passed away suffered from some predispositioned cause. Family history of heart diseases, liver or kidney failure, high blood pressure, and the list goes on and on. These guys are walking time bombs WITHOUT the roids..... The roids if there is ANY direct tie in, only helped to stress their bodies a little more then their pedispositioned disease already has. That I can think of, there has never been one bodybuilder that has passed away the a coroner has made a direct tie in to steroids based on that BB's death. NONE. Unless, there was some major abuse.... in the case of Andreas Munzer, Mohamed Benaziza. These two guys were serious abusers. And so, YES, it will take a serious toll on your body. But they are the exception, rather than the rule.

But you're point is well taken.

I am sorry but this is becoming somewhat epidemic and I personally feel the people who keep denying it are doing so for their own self service. Because whats the bottom line? The bottom line is people have to convince themselves that juice is A OK or it screws up the whole belief system while they are using currently.
I mean one thing you guys are overlooking is the number of incidences in which this is happening.
Mattarrazzo
Kawak
Youngblood
Atwood
Frank Hillebrand
Duvall and on and on
(You do not see a bunch of professional athletes of other sports dying of heart attacks in their late 30's into their 40's. To deny this is not facing the truth.)

Besides the professional bbers look on these boards of the people who have dissapeared over the years....what happened to those guys? Did their family come back on the boards and alert you guys that they died of heart attacks? no they wouldnt and didnt. There has been alot of guys on these boards who had reported health problems in the previous years and slowly slipped into oblivion and off the boards.....what happend to those guys? Dead? For every Maldorf who sticks around to tell his tale....i bet 100x the amount of those guys just leave the boards to tend to their woes (or are dead).

You are talking about a guy here writing this post who loves bbing and has engrained himself in it for 20 plus years and all these deaths and problems have made me pause to second think about things. I am not going to be like others who let their "extreme wanting to do certain things so they can look a certain way" skewer my reasoning that "something is off here, something is wrong, these guys are dying or having heart problems too young and too frequently"......

This one really shakes me up (because he used to email me from time to time back in the day inquiring about me training him)...... I just dont feel people can keep using the "well they were genetically predisposed"....and "they must have been using rec drugs too" cop out in every case to rectify things so they can go back to taking their shots twice a week without having anxiety attacks.

Something is off and something isnt working for the long run.....and I for one wont bury my head in the sand and deny it. Ive been a huge advocate of bloodwork and cardio and keeping abreast of health for years (as has stewie, kaladryn and others on this board)....and in some cases have been called an alarmist for it. You 25 year old guys bombing the stuff with no care in the world because "being big and shredded" is the most important facet in your life and nothing else matters?.......let me make you a distinct promise.......37 years old comes very fast......trust me you do not want to die at 37 years old....you will feel like you are just coming into your own at 37 in alot of cases and looking back at age 25 will seem like an immature time in your life for you......

On a personal level, i feel im doing all the things I should be doing over the last five years... cardio 5-7 times a week, TRT, diet (I need to stop eating at restraurants so much in my hurried schedule and also need to go 100% organic instead of 60% (out of inconvenience and/or laziness)....but this death right here along with all the others of late is going to have me reanalyzing things even further.

 

[IamZombie]

... You 25 year old guys bombing the stuff with no care in the world because "being big and shredded" is the most important facet in your life and nothing else matters?.......let me make you a distinct promise.......37 years old comes very fast......trust me you do not want to die at 37 years old....you will feel like you are just coming into your own at 37 in alot of cases and looking back at age 25 will seem like an immature time in your life for you......

And that's a fact.

For those that cannot bear to hear/read the truth, better not read DC post.

 

[upeccmi]

Great post Doggcrap. I am from NJ, so was Mat, I remember him with Jayson Arntz as buddies back in the day at several of my shows as youhg kids with lots of potential (back in early 90's). It is sad to see someone in our world dying so young, makes you think about your own motality. I am 46 now with 30+ years working out and 27 years of gear, since 40 I have been having issues with tearing tendons, blood work way out of ranges, I am now on blood pressure meds for the past 3 years. I cut back alot on my cycles (I know i really should give it up) but just can't.
Point is, in your 20s you do feel immortal and I actually feel lucky. Keep your doses low follow your blood work and take cycles off....please.

 

[johnjuanb1]

This is very sad what happened.

There's no doubt that carrying around 250 + Lbs is hard on the heart. Coupled with a few grams of AAS and stimulants, you're definitely pushing things. I've had two close friends die due to AAS mixed with stimulants. AAS builds muscle, stimulants are like pushing your heart in a marathon, this constant marathon pace of the heart while on a few grams a week of AAS increases the size of the heart. This, over a period of 25 years killed my one friend according to his doctor. He developed congestive heart failure due to this long term abuse. My other friend had his heart pop while on several grams of AAS mixing that with speed at a body weight of well over 300Lbs.

I know for myself that when my weight gets up over 250 Lbs I'm out of breath just walking to my car. In the 230's I'm good to go.

If you want to improve your odds of not having Heart attack, keep your body weight sensible, use lower doses of AAS(1 gram or less), do regular cardio, and avoid all stimulants like the plague.


R.I.P.

I definitely could make better choices on my AAS dosing. No free rides in this life. You want to play, you're gonna pay. Atleast I'm aware of my downfall.

 

[pesty4077]

Well, I think it is a shame a man dies at that young age. I won't get into what i hear some of you guys doing and fooling yourself into thinking you are invincible. I know, I had a major blood clot in my leg. I was lucky, Big Bapper (great guy) was not. That list is longer then you guys think of deaths and health related issues.

 

[basskiller]

diuretics - why is this almost never discussed when it pertains to any death?

While copious amounts of steroids can play a factor, I do believe people are giving them much to much credit.

The guy on stage that is most cut and dry is the one closest to deaths door. Their bodies are starving due to electrolyte imbalance. Their organs that should be cleaning the toxins out of their body are being taxed to the extreme.
Look at the process leading into a contest and what that entails. Then look at just how many contests these guys put themselves out their career.

It just seems to me that the higher the use of diuretics causes more harm than steroids would.

The guy's name escapes me at the present. Just recently, another bodybuilder/fitness guy passed away because he liked the ripped, dry look and was using diuretics very often, meaning not just for contests.. Just to look ripped

From a layman's perspective


BTW -I haven't a clue if this pertains to Matt at all.. This was just a comment as per the steroids discussion

 

[maldorf]

Thank you

I am sorry but this is becoming somewhat epidemic and I personally feel the people who keep denying it are doing so for their own self service. Because whats the bottom line? The bottom line is people have to convince themselves that juice is A OK or it screws up the whole belief system while they are using currently.
I mean one thing you guys are overlooking is the number of incidences in which this is happening.
Mattarrazzo
Kawak
Youngblood
Atwood
Frank Hillebrand
Duvall and on and on
(You do not see a bunch of professional athletes of other sports dying of heart attacks in their late 30's into their 40's. To deny this is not facing the truth.)

Besides the professional bbers look on these boards of the people who have dissapeared over the years....what happened to those guys? Did their family come back on the boards and alert you guys that they died of heart attacks? no they wouldnt and didnt. There has been alot of guys on these boards who had reported health problems in the previous years and slowly slipped into oblivion and off the boards.....what happend to those guys? Dead? For every Maldorf who sticks around to tell his tale....i bet 100x the amount of those guys just leave the boards to tend to their woes (or are dead).

You are talking about a guy here writing this post who loves bbing and has engrained himself in it for 20 plus years and all these deaths and problems have made me pause to second think about things. I am not going to be like others who let their "extreme wanting to do certain things so they can look a certain way" skewer my reasoning that "something is off here, something is wrong, these guys are dying or having heart problems too young and too frequently"......

This one really shakes me up (because he used to email me from time to time back in the day inquiring about me training him)...... I just dont feel people can keep using the "well they were genetically predisposed"....and "they must have been using rec drugs too" cop out in every case to rectify things so they can go back to taking their shots twice a week without having anxiety attacks.

Something is off and something isnt working for the long run.....and I for one wont bury my head in the sand and deny it. Ive been a huge advocate of bloodwork and cardio and keeping abreast of health for years (as has stewie, kaladryn and others on this board)....and in some cases have been called an alarmist for it. You 25 year old guys bombing the stuff with no care in the world because "being big and shredded" is the most important facet in your life and nothing else matters?.......let me make you a distinct promise.......37 years old comes very fast......trust me you do not want to die at 37 years old....you will feel like you are just coming into your own at 37 in alot of cases and looking back at age 25 will seem like an immature time in your life for you......

On a personal level, i feel im doing all the things I should be doing over the last five years... cardio 5-7 times a week, TRT, diet (I need to stop eating at restraurants so much in my hurried schedule and also need to go 100% organic instead of 60% (out of inconvenience and/or laziness)....but this death right here along with all the others of late is going to have me reanalyzing things even further.

Thanks for mentioning me in your post. I am glad that at least a few people are listening to my and heeding the warning signs. I had my heart attack at the age for 37, around that age seems to be where the problems happen. Matarazzo had his around that age. It does take time for the damage to build up. I do think a good number on the people on this board now pay much more attention to bloodwork, but many think that just because the blood work comes back good that means they can continue to abuse these drugs. I just wonder how many more deaths it is going to take before most people get their heads out of the fog and see what is going on.
It never surprises me anymore to see these deaths, and it is very frustrating to think that it could have been avoided in most cases. Like you say, guys dismiss these cases as just "bad genes" and/or rec drug abuse to make the excuse for themselves to continue using these drugs. Man has to have some way of reasoning that what he is doing is ok.

Oh, and I think you are right about most guys going off to lick their wounds and never communicating with these boards after the problem occurs. There was a time after my heart attack that I considered never coming back on here again because I was ashamed of what I did to myself and felt like most on the board wouldn't listen to me. I decided that I did not care what would happen and that I needed to share my case with everyone here because I might help a few people. I did instruct my wife to come on here if I should die, to let everyone know what happened.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Thanks for mentioning me in your post. I am glad that at least a few people are listening to my and heeding the warning signs. I had my heart attack at the age for 37, around that age seems to be where the problems happen. Matarazzo had his around that age. It does take time for the damage to build up. I do think a good number on the people on this board now pay much more attention to bloodwork, but many think that just because the blood work comes back good that means they can continue to abuse these drugs. I just wonder how many more deaths it is going to take before most people get their heads out of the fog and see what is going on.
It never surprises me anymore to see these deaths, and it is very frustrating to think that it could have been avoided in most cases. Like you say, guys dismiss these cases as just "bad genes" and/or rec drug abuse to make the excuse for themselves to continue using these drugs. Man has to have some way of reasoning that what he is doing is ok.

Oh, and I think you are right about most guys going off to lick their wounds and never communicating with these boards after the problem occurs. There was a time after my heart attack that I considered never coming back on here again because I was ashamed of what I did to myself and felt like most on the board wouldn't listen to me. I decided that I did not care what would happen and that I needed to share my case with everyone here because I might help a few people. I did instruct my wife to come on here if I should die, to let everyone know what happened.

Is like smokers, they all ways have excuses why they don`t stop smoking.

 

[maldorf]

Muscle News #69: RIP Mat DuVall

 

[aphextwin]

That's truly sad news. He was way to young to die. RIP....

 

[emeric delczeg]

I am sorry but this is becoming somewhat epidemic and I personally feel the people who keep denying it are doing so for their own self service. Because whats the bottom line? The bottom line is people have to convince themselves that juice is A OK or it screws up the whole belief system while they are using currently.
I mean one thing you guys are overlooking is the number of incidences in which this is happening.
Mattarrazzo
Kawak
Youngblood
Atwood
Frank Hillebrand
Duvall and on and on
(You do not see a bunch of professional athletes of other sports dying of heart attacks in their late 30's into their 40's. To deny this is not facing the truth.)

Besides the professional bbers look on these boards of the people who have dissapeared over the years....what happened to those guys? Did their family come back on the boards and alert you guys that they died of heart attacks? no they wouldnt and didnt. There has been alot of guys on these boards who had reported health problems in the previous years and slowly slipped into oblivion and off the boards.....what happend to those guys? Dead? For every Maldorf who sticks around to tell his tale....i bet 100x the amount of those guys just leave the boards to tend to their woes (or are dead).

You are talking about a guy here writing this post who loves bbing and has engrained himself in it for 20 plus years and all these deaths and problems have made me pause to second think about things. I am not going to be like others who let their "extreme wanting to do certain things so they can look a certain way" skewer my reasoning that "something is off here, something is wrong, these guys are dying or having heart problems too young and too frequently"......

This one really shakes me up (because he used to email me from time to time back in the day inquiring about me training him)...... I just dont feel people can keep using the "well they were genetically predisposed"....and "they must have been using rec drugs too" cop out in every case to rectify things so they can go back to taking their shots twice a week without having anxiety attacks.

Something is off and something isnt working for the long run.....and I for one wont bury my head in the sand and deny it. Ive been a huge advocate of bloodwork and cardio and keeping abreast of health for years (as has stewie, kaladryn and others on this board)....and in some cases have been called an alarmist for it. You 25 year old guys bombing the stuff with no care in the world because "being big and shredded" is the most important facet in your life and nothing else matters?.......let me make you a distinct promise.......37 years old comes very fast......trust me you do not want to die at 37 years old....you will feel like you are just coming into your own at 37 in alot of cases and looking back at age 25 will seem like an immature time in your life for you......

On a personal level, i feel im doing all the things I should be doing over the last five years... cardio 5-7 times a week, TRT, diet (I need to stop eating at restraurants so much in my hurried schedule and also need to go 100% organic instead of 60% (out of inconvenience and/or laziness)....but this death right here along with all the others of late is going to have me reanalyzing things even further.

Probably you remember this back about 30 years ago, was a drug combination/system that was available for a brief time. Its physiological impact is was to its higher affinity of the testosterone analogue for the AR (androgen receptor),with modest dosing requirements even for heavily muscled individuals. A striking benefit of this combination and dosing it was that hematocrit was not elevated to the extent seen with typical agents, so it was particularly beneficial for those above the age of 35 and particularly for those whose hematocrit rises to dangerous levels using the typical agents. Other characteristics included a diminished level of aromatization and minimal impact on glucocorticoid receptors. One remarkable effect was its impact on mood. It was not associated with aggression, but rather improved mood and feelings of wellbeing. In addition, this combination of components was associated with a mild increase in mental acuity. It was a combination of 3 hormones, the total of the 3 hormones per 1 cc was 25mg, 2 of them was 10mg each and 1 was 5mg only. Probably you know what I talking about.

 

[20sam91]

Dante do you still consider yourself at risk even though you are now using trt? I've always wondered about this... what happens to guys like yourself / John Meadows / Homonunculus etc who I would consider to be sensible, educated guys and probably represent the best case scenario for a gear user? Are there any residual effects from years of aas use?

also on a related note... if you are using a true trt dose how much size do you think it is possible to maintain? Obviously your goals change but are you in a position now where you are gradually getting smaller?