You guys really focus too much on HDL. The research doesn't substantiate your focus.
The first thing that makes low HDL virtually useless as a predictor in an androgen using population is upregulated reverse cholesterol transport. If the job of HDL that we we are primarily concerned with is reverse cholesterol transport and androgens upregulate reverse cholesterol transport then how can you argue that a low HDL for an androgen using exercising bodybuilder should be judged on the same scale as a natural sedentary person?
Example - "By lowering high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, testosterone contributes to the gender difference in HDL cholesterol and has been accused to be pro-atherogenic. The mechanism by which testosterone influences HDL cholesterol is little understood. We therefore investigated the effect of testosterone on the gene expression of apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I), hepatic lipase (HL), scavenger receptor B1 (SR-BI), and the ATP binding cassette transporter A1 (ABCA1), all of which are important regulators of HDL metabolism. Testosterone led to a dose-dependent up-regulation of SR-BI, which was assessed on both the mRNA and the protein levels. As a functional consequence, we observed an increased HDL(3)-induced cholesterol efflux from macrophages. At supraphysiological dosages, testosterone also increased the expression of HL in HepG2 cells. These data suggest that testosterone, despite lowering HDL cholesterol, intensifies reverse cholesterol transport and thereby exerts an anti-atherogenic rather than a pro-atherogenic effect."
This also tells us what we should be concerned with. It is not HDL but rather cholesterol efflux capacity.
Example - "It is unclear whether high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol concentration plays a causal role in atherosclerosis. A more important factor may be HDL cholesterol efflux capacity, the ability of HDL to accept cholesterol from macrophages, which is a key step in reverse cholesterol transport. We investigated the epidemiology of cholesterol efflux capacity and its association with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease outcomes in a large, multiethnic population cohort. We measured HDL cholesterol level, HDL particle concentration, and cholesterol efflux capacity at baseline in 2924 adults free from cardiovascular disease who were participants in the Dallas Heart Study. In contrast to HDL cholesterol level, which was associated with multiple traditional risk factors and metabolic variables, cholesterol efflux capacity had minimal association with these factors. Baseline HDL cholesterol level was not associated with cardiovascular events in an adjusted analysis. In a fully adjusted model that included traditional risk factors, HDL cholesterol level, and HDL particle concentration, there was a 67% reduction in cardiovascular risk in the highest quartile of cholesterol efflux capacity versus the lowest quartile. Cholesterol efflux capacity, a new biomarker that characterizes a key step in reverse cholesterol transport, was inversely associated with the incidence of cardiovascular events in a population-based cohort."
That all but proves, on some 3000 people, that HDL does not matter and cholesterol efflux capacity does. These are normal people also not using androgens with upregulated efflux.
One more time for those who find this hard to accept given their constant obsession with their HDL while on androgens. "Cholesterol-efflux capacity, which is a marker of HDL function that measures reverse cholesterol transport, is inversely associated with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease in a large population of patients healthy at baseline. The findings, say researchers, support 'retiring' the HDL cholesterol hypothesis—the idea of simply raising HDL cholesterol to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease—and instead should shift the focus to measures of HDL functionality."
HDL is low because you don't need as much of it. It's a biofeedback mechanism and not a reliable indicator of anything in an androgen using population and more and more evidence mounts to prove this is true for the general population as well. I think most people don't know this about androgens.
Rex.