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Some Sound Advice


New member
Jan 24, 2003
Hey hey all New to this Board,

I am in need of some assistance with certain questions. First does anyone live in Minneaplois, MN area ? I am 26 and 6ft tall and have a body weight of 260, with approx. BF% of 18-maybe, yes I am carrying more fat than I would like to be! But truth be known I know I am kinda fat atm, so no need to tell me that, I am doing an Atkins, keto type diet and have lost 20lbs already. To get to the point I have been away from the sceen a long time now as you can tell by my weight, and I want to get back into it, I would like to know of a good 8week cutting cycle, without T-3, Clen and that type stuff. I was thinking of Test Prop, Winny, Tren, EQ? What do ya guys think, I just need to figure out the dose of each for my body type, I have done 2 cycles in the past, so AAS will not be new to my system. I mean should I keep shredding the pounds without supplements till like 220-230 then do a cycle? I wanna try and get huge this time so should I keep the weight and turn it into muscle with supplements or would that be a waste till I lose some more weight?

Thanks All,

Wileycoyote =/
Welcome Bro,

if you do an 8 week cycle go with the prop/fina/winny if you use eq get some esterless, other wise you need to run it atleast 10-12 weeks. It takes 4-5 weeks to kick in.

You need to deside what you want to do cut or bulk, it your call, you know better then any of us how your body works.

Thanx JB,

I dont think I need to bulk at all, I really feel I have enough bulk for sure. I really need to either harden up what I have or Lean it down 30lbs to 230lbs. With the Prop, Tren, Winny would that be the best bet to harden up the thickness that I already have? Or would It be better to do like a Deca, Sust250 type thing?

Thanx All

Wileycoyote =/
Posted by kkrammer at Bolex

Anavar seems to be great for fat loss, but is not exactly something i would call "safe":

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.

Thanx Again JB,

I am 26 years old, not old yet by any means =)
I just wanna be solid by June, I can prolly do 2 cycles by then, I will see. Okay so I have never used Fina, or Prop, do I need to taper it? Front load it? I think Fina is like what 75/eod? not sure on the Prop though, so you think that maybe the Anavar would be better than possibly the winny?

Thanx Bro's,

Wileycoyote =/
Humn very informative,

So I will decide the Prop/Anavar/Fina. Problem is I have never used any of these, so I need some feed back as to how much to use, in the above is my age and weight, and height and bf%, any help in that dose department would be great help, I am sure I can find stuff on all of these, but I am trying to get it setup best to fit my body composition. Man I cannot wait, I am excited to be back!!

Wileycoyote =/
Go 100mg prop with 75mg fina eod. Stick with the winny. No need to frontload or taper. Just make sure you drink plenty of water and keep your diet tight and your good to go.

On the anavar and winny that's up to you, I was just try to give you an option. You could try one with winny and one with anavar to se which one works best for you. Sence you said you could get 2 cycles in by June.


anabolics help you retain lean body mass when dieting and they do have a positive effect on thermogenesis (fat burning) themselves to a degree. But once you're on a calorie restricted diet to really drop fat beyond a certain point, you do need additional thermogenics IMHO. The reason Tren, Winny, EQ, and Prop are so highly touted is that they generate minimal bloat, and are fast acting which seems to help promote thermogenesis. So having said all this, here's what I have found to work:

weeks 1-12: 50mg Test Prop ED
weeks 1-12: 75mg Tren ED
weeks 1-8: 600mg EQ per week
weeks 8-12: 50mg Winny

I'm also using Arimidex and Nolvadex to minimize bloat and E related sides. As for thermogenics, I would use:

T3 - starting week 3 above and running til week 10
day 1-2: 25mcg ED
day 2-4: 50mcg ED
day 5-7: 75mcg ED
week 4-5: 100mcg ED
week 6: 75mcg ED
week 7: 50mcg ED
week 8-10: 25mcg ED

Clen: 100mcg ED for 2 weeks then off for 2 weeks starting when the T3 starts
ECA: Used during weeks off of Clen (I'm considering trying an NYC combo and rotating these)

BTW - If you don't have T3 or Clen, that's ok, but I'd definitely use an ECA and/or NYC to help the process along.

That's the plan that I have found to work, so I'm stickin to it.
Good luck,


PS: I'm 5'8" at about 205, 8.5% BF now and going down :D
Last edited:
Re: look....

drgoodbody said:

weeks 1-12: 50mg Test Prop ED
weeks 1-12: 75mg Tren ED
weeks 1-8: 600mg EQ per week
weeks 8-12: 50mg Winny
If you go with a cycle like this, it would be better to run the EQ 12 weeks @ 400mg and extend the prop and fina to 15 weeks. EQ takes 4-5 weeks to kick in, it shouldn't be run less then 10 or 12 weeks.

drgoodbody those are some good results Bro.


Thanks alot guys that helps me alot!!! How does the clen effect you guys? I really cannot stand that feeling, makes me feel like im speeding along, jittery, and sometimes throw up, although that was with the ever poetent IP clen. Can you get a premixed type ECA, like in one pill form never done ECA myself, is it a lilttle esaier on ya then Clen? B/C whatever one is not so harsh is the one I will do with T-3. I will have to check my funds, and I should be able to gather to goods together. Thanx for all your help I will post what I end up getting here in a bit.

Wileycoyote =/

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